Water injection

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:14 pm

The key is that things change temperature faster when the temperature differential is greater.

Eg, if a 16 degree heater is held against a 15 degree object it will take a while to get to 16 degrees, but if a 1000 degree heater is held next to it it will get to 16 degree instantly.

the important thing to note here is that the water heats up (and therefore cools the charge) very very very quickly inside the cylinders where temps are sometimes above 900c.

Because the difference in temp here (as opposed to in the intake) is so high most of the latent heat transfers into the water here.

So the water doesnt cool the intake charge from 40 degrees to 10 degrees, it cools the charge temps from 900 to 700, which is a MUCH bigger change, and help.

This stops detonation.

So you could run heaps and heaps of timing in an na motor and make power using water to stop detonation, or run more boost with a turbo car, using the wwater to stop the detonation.

Dann

bootz · Postby **bootz** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:50 pm

Ok, I'll ask the smart guys 'cause my head hurts.

What about a drip feed into the pod filter and hooked into windscreen bottle. I never clean my windows anyway. :mrgreen:

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:54 pm

Its no atomised so wont vapourise in the cylinder, thus not reducing intake charge temps.

The real question is why?

Dann

bootz · Postby **bootz** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:09 pm

Wont the latent heat soak in the intake vapourise the micro droplets anyway??

If you want to be pernickerty then you could hook a windscreen washer motor with internal switch.

Its like when you spray water on your face on a hot day - the evaporation is instant cool.

I can see you ROFL right now.

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:14 pm

You dont want it to take 5 degrees from the intake air like you want your face 5 degrees cooler. you want it to take 200 degrees from the intake charge, inside the cylinder.

Dann

bootz · Postby **bootz** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:26 pm

This is what I am talking about:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/4g/p ... manual.htm

I like the idea of water methanol injection. However note the warning about blowing up your engine. :evil:

Perhaps a baby 'charger' would be safer.

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:37 pm

It still isnt going to gain you any power or reliability.

Dann

Benny · Postby **Benny** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:20 pm

WARNING!!!!

Do not run E85 in your car unless you have modified all the fuel lines and your fuel pump otherwise you may run into problems with melting lines and rubbers in the system.

The Flex fuel Commodes run stainless steel lines and are made to run on E85, your MX-5 is not.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:01 pm

I would hope a comment said with that sort of tone came from someone with vast amounts of experience running e85 in an mx5. Not just someone whos read heaps of rubbish started by CSR, the makers of sucrogen(direct competitor of pump E85), and perpetuated on the internet.

Dann

jerrah · Postby **jerrah** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:13 pm

They have been running ethanol blends overseas for years without special pumps and lines. I've also read in online research that ethanol (alcohol) is less harmful to fuel lines than petrol - although the water content could cause rust in metal tanks if left sitting. I can't see a rush on stainless fuel tanks to accompany your stainless fuel lines however.

That said don't expect to put e85 in an untuned car and expect to go for a drive. That's two separate issues.

I've been running low ethanol (e10) blends in my MX5 for nearly 5 years now of my ownership (no idea of previous owner) and my fuel lines look brand new and corrosion free.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:19 pm

E85 in a stock fuel system na6 for 6 months now. Just looked in ALL of the lines today. They are great, want photos? :roll:

Dann

jerrah · Postby **jerrah** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:20 pm

No idea of the source of this information: http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.

Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.
The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.
Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.
Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.

This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.

E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.