NB8 91 or 95 ron fuel?

[jerrah]

Jerrah- E10 is cheaper but gets less l/100km- see the Drive report.

Just read through the 'Drive report' appears to be testing three Camry's on "e10" (presumably 91 e10), 95 and 98RON fuels. I think "e10" is too general a term for comparing the fuels.

Also the Camry undoubtably runs well on 91RON so there would be little advantage of knock prevention running a higher octane fuel.

If the same test had been with a European car that requires 98RON it wouldn't have ran very well on the 91/95, it would be down in power and possibly suffer engine damage.

Yes I'm just saying the same things over and over.

Yes 94 e10 has less energy potential than 95 unleaded but at the same price as 91 unleaded elsewhere the Shell product seems better value given the engine can run at optimum timing.

Of interest GM in the article (2008) claiming that e20+ destroys catalytic convertors yet they have e85 models now??

[Mr Morlock]

the "drive" report tested 3 fuels E10,91 and 95. E10 is what is commonly sold in many servo's- it is not something that changes for every "brand" . The test was done on a car tuned for 91 like most cars are- the Camry will of course run safely on E10 and 95. Cars running ie tuned for 98 are nearly always commented on in negative terms because of the cost of fuel.

[NitroDann]

Morlock I think youve missed some things. You seem to think that petrol a single substance. It just isnt, its blended out of many different hydrocarbons. The petrochemical engineers have massive base stocks of each different hydrocarbon and they blend what they have at the time to produce a couple weeks supply of a product that gets past the standards needed to sell it.

Its different every single week, even at the same service station.

And e10 comes in many varieties. From 89 octane and 10% ethanol to get it over the 91 octane line. To 94 octane e10 at shell service stations.
And all of united stations e10 is actually 95 octane.

And as I said, on top of all of this, these arent exactly the same blend even weekly from the same pump.

Following me now?

Dann

[samx5]

Hey samx5, did you eventually answer your question in this:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=30568

Hi there, no I didn't perform the mod or look into it any more in the end, wasn't commonplace so thought it was a bit dodgy unlike the simple changes for NA6's. I've heard through the club that it can be done but I've been spending time just making it drive sweeter.

[jerrah]

The test was done on a car tuned for 91 like most cars are

Alternatively if the same test was performed using a car like the Yaris (which is has stickers indicating designed for e10) and the e10 in question was the 94/95RON e10 vs 91 Regular they may have discovered a different result.

The 94/95 Shell & United e10 product ≠ 91 e10.

I would presume that from an updated more complete test across a wider range of fuels and different vehicles would be valuable considering that test was performed in 2008.

[Mr Morlock]

I reckon Drive chose the right fuels to check which were compatible with the Camry. The test is what it is. At one stage I was using E10 in a vehicle I have but no longer use that fuel since it appears to have no advantage that I can see. I still think many punters have no idea what fuel they are putting in their cars but they are influenced by advertising.

The latest model Yaris is designed for 91- refer Toyota website.

[Mr Morlock]

Insofar as Dann's comments are concerned about fuel variability I am inclined not to ascribe to that general view. I do accept there have been some problems with fuel that have not been explained though 3rd party doctoring and maybe suspect tanks have been players. There was a case in Melb not very long ago where engines were damaged and it was reported in the Press- I am not sure what was the final outcome. A mate replaced an engine for a customer with water in the fuel ( insurance claim ) and it was tracked to a specific servo.

However if you really believe that fuel varies batch to batch then why would one accept any claim made by a petrol company that their fuel is superior or in process control. The car industry is dríven by repeatability with many components measured for rejects in double digit ppm. I would expect the petrol companies to take a lot of care in a world where lawsuits and bad publicity can be just around the corner- Toyota have been down that track.

[NitroDann]

The standards they need to live up to have nothing to do with fuel economy. Only RON, MON, and emissions.

I also cannot for the life of me work out how water in fuel could ever damage an engine and require it to be replaced.

Google, water injection.

Dann

[jerrah]

The latest model Yaris is designed for 91- refer Toyota website.

I can take a picture of the inside of my fuel door if really required?

As I said earlier unless I've had a consistent really bad batches of 91RON I have audible knock on that fuel. I also have repeatable increases in range using 94RON e10.

This doesn't directly relate to the OP's question of suitability for a stock NB8, merely my experience in a Yaris over 60,000km.

[Redondo]

NB8a manual states octane level at least 90 page 3-2. just happend to have it beside me.

Personal preference if you want to go higher. I have had the car since new and always found premium sweeter to run but that is subjective from my point of view.

I take redbooks info just like wikipedia. It is often incorrect.

[93_Clubman]

Hey samx5, did you eventually answer your question in this:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=30568

Hi there, no I didn't perform the mod or look into it any more in the end, wasn't commonplace so thought it was a bit dodgy unlike the simple changes for NA6's. I've heard through the club that it can be done but I've been spending time just making it drive sweeter.

Ah tks - so you heard through the club the off the shelf part would work as opposed to having to drill?

[samx5]

Ah tks - so you heard through the club the off the shelf part would work as opposed to having to drill?

Hey Paul, I heard it from 2 places, one was a workshop in SA that works on some MX5's and has done some turbo conversions, but I never saw the part with my own eyes and I haven't been there since that time to ask again. The other was from within the club, but the same person also said that my NB8A had HLA's and not solid lifters (!!!), so I didn't pursue that angle either. I was thinking that if there was an off-the shelf part available there would be potentially dozens of NB8A's in Aust that had been modified, and I'd therefore be able to easily find a thread about it somewhere but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'll get my timing checked at the next service in a few weeks to confirm that it's within factory specs, then I'll know if someone has played with the timing previously. I just don't want to have the car in workshops fussing over little things when it's running fine on 95 octane. I'd rather drive it as much as possible instead!! Cheers!

[93_Clubman]

Ah tks - so you heard through the club the off the shelf part would work as opposed to having to drill?

Hey Paul, I heard it from 2 places, one was a workshop in SA that works on some MX5's and has done some turbo conversions, but I never saw the part with my own eyes and I haven't been there since that time to ask again. The other was from within the club, but the same person also said that my NB8A had HLA's and not solid lifters (!!!), so I didn't pursue that angle either. I was thinking that if there was an off-the shelf part available there would be potentially dozens of NB8A's in Aust that had been modified, and I'd therefore be able to easily find a thread about it somewhere but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'll get my timing checked at the next service in a few weeks to confirm that it's within factory specs, then I'll know if someone has played with the timing previously. I just don't want to have the car in workshops fussing over little things when it's running fine on 95 octane. I'd rather drive it as much as possible instead!! Cheers!

Tks again Mike - haven't read elsewhere about the off the shelf part, as opposed to the drilling mod, to bump NB8A timing, but will try to find out more about it.

Good to hear the NB8A is going so well & certainly understand you prefer it on the road than in the workshop for anything, especially minor. If you were local I'd happily loan you a timing light which could save a trip to the workshop.

[samx5]

Yeah, it's being dríven most days, rain or shine. Hope yours is going well too. Back to the timing issue, I've just found this:
http://5xracing.com/i-6330020-5x-racing ... miata.html

Interesting.....it DOES exist!! I'll still get my timing checked before I buy one though, just in case!!
Cheers,
Mike

[magenb]

The standards they need to live up to have nothing to do with fuel economy. Only RON, MON, and emissions.

I also cannot for the life of me work out how water in fuel could ever damage an engine and require it to be replaced.

Google, water injection.

Dann

small amounts of water can be used to help reduce pinging, but large amount are problematic as water is a bad lubricant and does nothing to prevent damage between metal on metal, where as oil has a pressure resistance to prevent damage. Water in the fuel is a different story, the additives in the fuel start to seperate when mixed with water, especially ethanol based fuels, this can lead to a variety of acids forming in your engine.