boosting on a low budget

[slimx]

Ok as the ORIGINAL PERSON WHO ASKED the question let me have my say.

Yes obviously i have INTAKE and EXHAUST fitted. havent tuoched headers though obviously during a turbo i would have to.

For starters THE QUESTION WAS CHEAP
OBVIOUSLY if you spend more you get more..
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You are right.. NOT CHEAP is VERY VERY RIGHT. Thats just common sense. No point stating the obvious. If i had 50k Id spend 50k on the conversion and get it done even MORE RIGHT than you said.

NitroDann did provide a ver yaccurate answer, Infact.. he even pushed the price a little high in my opinon. I have found several.. parts cheaper than what he said. The only issue ive been having is manifolds unfortunately for some reason hard to find.

As for the comment about mx5plus, Yes very good place, good warranty, specialises in our cars. But VERY HIGH PRICED. I was looking for a tacho and was quoted 250. I've bought even a BMW M3 07 tacho for $130? Headlights in my area easily found for $150(USED)-250(RECONDITIONED) each was quoted $350 by plus. You cant ask for the difference back it syour fault for not shopping around.

and just so u know the last point u made..Buying an SE
AS I MENTIONED A THOUSAND TIMES I PAID 10k for my NB8B an SE Is OVER 20k IT DOESNT COST 10 GRAND TO TURBO AN MX5. IT COST 10-15 FOR A ROTARY CONVERSION!..

I have a trust issue with mechanics. Im not mechanic but i have a fair common sense. I'd rather get advice from forums, and goto a mechanic WITH MY IDEA in my head. Not just what i want the thing to do. But HOW i want it to do that.

If i get bored enough, i will most likely go through with it.
I found everything dirty cheap, cheaper than expected.. Just manifold seem to be having trouble finding gonna have to go with online same with megasquirt.
Found a turbo for 50bux i just bogut it straight away, got it hot .. but hey who cares lol. GReddy i think!

Alot of the mechanics i went to said no point in changing diff, clutch or modifying the gearbox for a little bit of boost. But yeh.. eh.. i dno w'ell see in the future.

[NitroDann]

5 speed is good for 250rwhp, 1.6 diff will die for sure at any boosted power, 1.8 diff good for 350rwhp, 6 speed good for 350 rwhp, stock clutch only good for 150 odd.

Shouldnt have bought that turbo. Buy the manifold first. Now you have to cut your search down even finer to manis that suit that turbo flange.

Dann

[Charlie Brown]

5 speed is good for 250rwhp, 1.6 diff will die for sure at any boosted power, 1.8 diff good for 350rwhp, 6 speed good for 350 rwhp, stock clutch only good for 150 odd. Dann

Hmmm, Turbo Girl blew a lot of 6 speed boxes when they ran 250rwkW (335rwHP), they needed to back the boost down so it only produced 230rwkW as Greg was getting sick of having to do the repairs. Class rules prevented using a different box.

[jerrah]

NB8B diff and gearbox should be ok for FI but an open diff will be annoying.

I'd look to build it around a Flyin Miata or BEGI manifold and related downpipe which use the T25 flange. Nissan S13/14/15 use this turbo flange stock as do some other cars.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4524&parentid=0&stocknumber=22-20000%20%201990-93
http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=5_11_62&products_id=368

[NitroDann]

A 15 rwhp difference is negligible to a dyno. I bet back to back runs showed a 5-10hp difference. Dynos read power differently based on different correction figures, on top of that very very few shops follow a strict routine to get accurate readings pull by pull let alone week by week. But yeah as you pointed out, above 300 is starting to push it.

Dann

[NitroDann]

http://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=58038
Theres your example manifolds and downpipes.
first one i clicked on.

Dann

[jerrah]

Yeah - except that guys parts have been sold for ages. Had a lot of trouble with finding parts which are actually for sale on that forum. I guess you have to be quick?

[bigdog]

Far out Slim! You asked a question and got some well thought out, considered replies, from people who know and understand the subject, and have watched others attempt exactly the same exercise. I wish you luck in what you are attempting, but I stick by my advice to buy an already turboed car. There are a number of FI NAs around for sale (and an SE with mods for 14K!) that will probably save you money in the long run. Most 'home' turbo jobs are that I have seen are compromised in some way, generally in the tuning - poor idle, flat spots, boost spikes etc - simply because dyno time and expert tuners cost a lot of money. You may be one of the lucky few that can pull off a cheap, reliable, well tuned home turbo installation. Its your money and time, go for it.

[bjones]

biting tongue biting tongue biting tongue

Cheap turbo ROFLMAO no if you want it reliable, or you like doing a lot of fixing (read ebaying for sh*t, replacing sh*t for sh*t)


Seriously though alot of good advice but in the long run what do you want a turbo mx.....sell your car put your budget towards one thats done , theyve gone through the hardache to get the car where it is... Im not saying it cant be done it most probably can but will it hold together or will you get the craps because the next guy spent the money on a good engine biulder / tuner. And now runs less boost , is quicker and more reliable and is out enjoying there car while your in the shed fixing yours again.

As for the comments earlier about the 6sp boxes and blowing them....Has alot to come down to how its dríven and treated...EG no good blowing your rev limiter and dumping the clutch all the time of cause something is going to blow....

Any way good luck with the biuld let us know how it goes and take advice and dont get offended people like bigdog have alot more experience then most of us put together...

BJ

[Mr Morlock]

I think people do these things probably for fun but it is never going to stand up to the commonsense test. A low boost is probably going to be a very nice jigger to drive- smooth power a bit of excitement and reliable. But big Kw's and the design intent is stood on end and it becomes a money pit and for some a frustration. Guys with a hoist plenty of technical knowledge and the ability to do work themselves have the inside straight. Anyone paying the pros is stuck with the Au economy which means overheads and wages etc cost north of $70 p/hour. Buying cars already restored is a far cheaper proposition than doing it yourself and it seems that might also apply to the turbo route. Have fun.

[NitroDann]

Any reliable complete turbo setup, whether cheap or not will make big power with a b6 or bp. You cant really cheap it up and save money by running less power, except at very low power you might save replacing the clutch. But everything else is necessary, and if you have it, why not crank the boost?

Dann

[Orphan]

It's funny when people only listen to what they want to hear

@ Slimx. Unless you personally have the ability or free access to a mechanic, welder and tuner NitroDann's prices are WAY under what it will cost YOU to do it. If you do go to a mechanic with your plan and parts you are still looking at at least $1000 labor if not more and any decent tuner is still going to charge you $600-800+ not to mention the number of parts you SHOULD have that are not listed- that alone puts you into the $4.5k+ range AGAIN. Just because you want it done cheap does not mean it can be done cheap and forced induction is not something you want to cheap out on. If you spend half as much and get a pile of crap you are still left with a pile of crap.

I agree compared to the low price end of NB's and SE isn't financially appealing but ending up with a rubbish result when it would only take you a few more weeks of saving to pay for a good job that is quality, reliable and done right is not a big deal. The whole do once do it right ideal. This is just the way it is in regards to turbocharging an N/A vehicle. Another point is that in the current market you can actually recover quite a bit of money spent on forced induction in the MX-5 scene if you look around at the prices most quality turbo/supercharged MX-5's are selling for. Say you spent $5k doing a decent job, you could probably get $13-16k for the end result if it is a good one compared to losing all of what you spent on a half ass job because no one wants to touch it and are barely offering you what the car cost originally.

[NitroDann]

The ONLY hard part here is tuning it, whoch anybody can do on their own with a ms pnp and some patients. Anybody.

You also again mention my list is missing parts to 'do it properly'. What are these parts?

For example i gave a list of parts needed. I didnt just say, 'you need less parts than what orphan says'. But youve just said 'you need more parts than dann has said'.
Please provide a list.

Dann

[Orphan]

Hey Dann,

You have to take into consideration what the OP is capable of doing. Yes all the physical side is pretty easy but without experience and confidence that can be quite daunting none the less. He has already mentioned the taking the parts and idea to a mechanic to do the install. Combine those costs with that of tuning and there alone you have a substantial additional cost to the project.

The parts you have left out have already been stated in the thread, things like a decent turbo back exhaust and cat, intake, boost guage, clutch (stock one seems to start slipping after 160whp from what the FI guys have said), bov, possibly upgraded radiator etc not to mention all the odds and ends such as nuts and bolts, brackets, silicon couplings/hoses. There is quite a bit of money in these items and one could expect adding the better part of $2000 to the project from them, they outweigh the cost of all the second hand turbo gear to begin with though you could probably second hand at least a few of the items if you are happy to wait until they become available. The OP has since come and said he has intake and exhaust fitted, too bad the stock intake will not work for an FI set up and I would put money on it only being a 2.25-2.5" cat back (most suitable size range for N/A) with stock cat on his car, 2.5" should be workable but definitely not ideal. By law the the intake must be sealed from the engine bay so no pod filter hanging out in the engine bay, can the OP make a air box or will he need one fabricated? If the car is the OP's only transport and he is unable to walk/cycle/public transport around very easily for a while then that puts a time constraint on getting it all done. I am in no way saying it can't be done, only that the OP does not appear to have the ability to pull it off for the sums you have suggest or be in the position to do it himself. It's no buy "stage 1"(lol) and get an extra 80hp+ senario.

On a side note you seem to have experience with tuning? I have read a pretty detailed book about it and it seems to be fairly straight forward though time consuming moving in baby steps to make sure the tune safe then perfecting it. I haven't had any actual tuning experience past playing around with adaptronic's software and getting a feel for it with a ecu dump and returned AFR chart. Any comments? Have you tried air charge/intake temp sensors to help with safety to automatically cut timing back before it starts pinging? Definitely an area of interest for me for the future so I would like to hear any thoughts.

[NitroDann]

Wew, long post coming.

My list includes clutch, and a few hundred for for oil lines clamps etc. And an exhaust shop can do intercooler piping for VERY cheap if you go with 2.5 press bent mild steel.

And an intake using a pod with enclosure available at autobarn for <$50 is doable. And a 2.5 inch exhaust is fine and a 2.25 will work but limit you to 200whp. I would assume anybody keen on a turbo swap would already have one.
Aslo, no matter how popular they are, a boost guage and a blow off valve just arent needed. Blow off valves are for show and as for boost, you better off logging manifold pressure and using megalog viewer to view it.

I fully understand your point about experience and ability to pull this off but my thoughs are this..

Anyone who can service their own car (minor service) can swap in a manifold/turbo/dump pipe. They can also do the oil lines super easily and in worst case scenario might need to throw the exhaust shop 20 bucks to weld the bung in the sump for oil return.
They might need to buy a hacksaw bbuy ebay cooler piping kits are easy for anyone at home, and standard saab or xr6t intercoolers are almost free at wreckers.
Changing injectors is super easy, and with the clutch, well, some would need to go to the mechanic for this.

As for tuning, have you done an afm delete? If you have you need an IAT sensor anyways. Its pretty easy to tune a spark reduction/ heat curve. But onbiously you need a GOOD set of det cans and a keen ear. Prefferably you get a mate to drive and you sit with the laptop as passenger.

I have difficulty finding friends who have the balls to hold it wide to 8500 in 3rd and follow instructions when in my car. Mostly due to the noise and wheelspin its a lot scarier than other cars that hit 100 in 6 seconds flat.

My advice would be to get a air temp correction map from another experienced guy, girly it up a bit, then go out and work it back down for more power. And use good enclosed headphones for the det cans.

Dann