Pros and cons of manual steering rack on a NA

spikes · Postby **spikes** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:30 am

So I need convincing on what sort of steering rack I should get..

The first MX5 I ever drove was a manual steering one, but I didn't think much of it, yes it was awesome the amount of feel you get through the wheels and more of sense of a go kart than a car. and yeah it did take effort to turn at slower speeds and I didn't drive it for long to do any parking and also I don't remember if it bothered me or not..

Anyways my current NA has power steering, and the rack is buggered and in due for a replacement.. and I'm just after opinions of those who went from power steer to manual steer.

Yes I do realize that it will take more effort to turn the wheel but I'm doing it more in fact for the feel of steering. I've dríven plenty of cars with manual steer but I'm having a hard time deciding if the feel for the steering is worth the extra effort put into parking and slow speed manoeuvres..

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:37 am

Recently a friend who rides in my car at least weekly was shocked and tried to argue that my car had power steering. It doesnt.

It NEVER bothers me to park it. at all. And you get free feel.

Why wouldnt you, its a 900kg car for crying out loud.

Dann

Dweezle · Postby **Dweezle** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:41 am

I went from a eunos to a mx5.
So essentially PS to manual.

I found the PS in the mx5 to actually feel really good.
I would go back to PS if the opportunity arose.

I have read on here before that Mazda origianlly planned for PS but a last minute decision put a stop to this. Not sure how true that is.

That said, the manual rack is a more direct/connected feel. I just did not find the PS to be anywhere near as lazy or floaty as most other cars.

lightyear · Postby **lightyear** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:51 am

I put a manual rack in my na to make it lighter, and more reliable (no hoses to break) and didn't notice any difference.

mazdatenfive · Postby **mazdatenfive** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:28 am

My observations.

1 Number of turns lock to lock are greater on manual.
2 On bumpy roads power steering tends to allow your bouncing arms to steer when you don't want them to.

spikes · Postby **spikes** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:03 am

Yeah I an agree with your right there nitrodann, I have a couple of mates that have always complained about lack of power steering in their old Toranas, HQ Holdens, etc and trying to convince against swapping my rack out for a manual. but for a MX5, they're like almost 500kgs lighter so it will be a lot easier.

I guess I'm going to have befriend somebody with a manual steer MX5 and take it for a drive to see if I want to fully commit to the change.

Also mazdatenfive, point number 1 you mentioned, more turns to full lock on manual steering, is that good or bad?

and 2, I get the feeling my steering is very 'floaty' and to sensitive over bumps and ripples in the road. but then again, I'm pretty sure my rack is stuffed so i don't know if thats the issue or not

Bizi · Postby **Bizi** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:11 am

Spikes, where are you located?

I'm happy to meet you at PITS or MX5 Mania if you're in Sydney.

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:16 am

Im in newcastle, come drive mine.

More turns means that with the PS rack you have to turn the steering wheel a bit less than the manual rack to turn the same corner. Its not a lot.

Dann

spikes · Postby **spikes** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:25 am

I'm on the Central Coast, thanks for the offers guys

I'm always travelling between newcastle and sydney so I'll give you guys a yell

Bizi · Postby **Bizi** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:49 am

spikes, the next three weekends are possible for me to meet somewhere, if this helps.

I figure we could try a couple of stretches of road on the OPH, where you can get an idea of back-to-back power v. unassisted.

Our Clubman is fairly stock AFAIK but you may be able to tell me more.

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:51 am

Hes politely asked for a ride in mine before the rego comes off for a little while. Hell have fun with that. Its not my pants.. damn its my seat !! :shock:

Dann

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:32 pm

Many of the racers & others prefer the MX5 PS, except for some, the over boosted NA6 PS, i.e. "As I recall, the ratio's the same, but the valving of the power-assisted tiller from 1994 on is different and incorporates many of the changes which were originally to have been part and parcel of the PAS hardware of the oringnal 1.6 litre NA. bwob"

Here's Bwob's thoughts on MX5 PS v non-PS (see the last para of his 2nd post initially as this explains his 1st post opening comment):
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=127316

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... 316&page=2

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... 316&page=4

Some local thoughts:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=38096

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=32739

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:39 pm

I've dríven both. I love the manual steering, even running wide rubber. My NA has the manual rack, 205 rubber on +25 8 inch wheels, and a 330mm steering wheel. Parking requires a little effort but nothing unreasonable.

The PS is pretty good too though. I much prefer the NB power rack over the NA power rack though. It's a shame it requires a crossmember transplant to make the NB rack work in the NA.

Honestly, why not remove all the crap and just have a manual rack? Saves a few kilos, no possibility of future leaks, PS pump failures, etc.

spikes · Postby **spikes** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:41 pm

zossy1 wrote:
Honestly, why not remove all the crap and just have a manual rack? Saves a few kilos, no possibility of future leaks, PS pump failures, etc.

I'd love to, I'm just wearing of fully committing to a manual rack and then regretting it later on when I go to do a reverse parallel.

Bizi, yeah that would be pretty great but I'm probably going to be checking out NitroDann's on wednesday, if that doesn't happen then yeah maybe this coming sunday or something would be brilliant

Oh and also, pulling out the power steer rack and installing the manual, is that a hard job? ie could I do it myself or is it best left to the professionals?
My technical level is moderate, i can rebuild motors, install suspension bushes, change shocks, etc..

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:55 pm

spikes wrote:Oh and also, pulling out the power steer rack and installing the manual, is that a hard job? ie could I do it myself or is it best left to the professionals?
My technical level is moderate, i can rebuild motors, install suspension bushes, change shocks, etc..

Easy. Disconnect all the P/S lines, loosen the lower uni connecting the column to the rack (12mm bolt), remove the split pins from the tie rod ends and knock the tie rod end nuts off, a few good raps with the hammer on the cast upright housing holding the tie rod end (DO NOT hammer the tie rod end shaft or thread!). Then undo the four 14mm bolts holding the rack to the crossmember, and it will fall right out.

Install is the reverse procedure (though depending on how your new rack comes, you may need to do some transplants with tie rods / ends). You will need a wheel alignment obviously. If you go with a new P/S rack, you will need to prime and bleed the new rack with P/S fluid.