HID Conversion Kit

[Charlie Brown]

Still doesn't answer the question of where it's legislated that aftermarket HID’s are illegal.

From what I read in the ADR’s self levelling of new cars with HID’s isn’t required, merely an adjustment for height. Headlight washers have an ADR standard but aren’t linked with HID’s.

The kit I have runs Phillips bulbs, one of the biggest bulb suppliers in the world that passes all the EU testing requirements.

And yes NC's do have projector lights similar to the NB8B but I’m getting to that stage in life where I’m loosing night vision and the HID’s solve this problem with the white rather than cream light output. The cut off level of the beam is the same for the HID as the halogen with the projector lens. I fully understand this is not the case with the headlights in the NA and NB8A where flaring occurs.

Still the original question remains unanswered. Can someone find where it stipulates aftermarket HID’s are illegal.

[Locutus]

perhaps i'm digging my own grave, but here it is.

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Series/F2005L03991

Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.

the ADR isn't specific regarding the type of light source (can be HID or otherwise). halogen lamps used in low beams typically generate ~1000 lumen, HID lamps are around ~3000 lumen.
i believe the automatic headlight levelling is a myth brought about by section 6.2.6.2.1 perhaps as a result of incorrect lighting patterns from reflector lamps retrofitted with HID bulbs.

In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.

i am using a philips HID kit, with philips ballasts and philips bulbs. i wouldn't go anywhere near dodgy electrics.

[Charlie Brown]

Thanks Locutus.

I took the dog for a walk past our local BMW dealership and caught a mechanic heading home and asked about the BMW's. Some were fitted with pop up washers and some weren't. The ones that weren't didn't have HID.

Looks like I'll hook up some washers to the windscreen system, as the rules allow for that.
As I keep the car pretty clean it really is just a token way of defusing (pun) the compliance problem.

Checking my cut off levels with other cars through the ED tunnel tonight on the way home showed that I'm way down on the normal OEM set levels, so I shouldn't attract any boys in blue.

[Mr Morlock]

Philips / Osram are essentially ( were) bulb makers not set makers. A bulb can be put in anything that has a compatible bulbholder. A headlight is the sum of all its design parameters and execution and is tested to the finest of degrees in photometric labs and adjusted if the light pattern is not to spec and to the engineers liking - ie also by doing night trials. When the set maker tests the lamp they may also test it with say a Philips light source and a Osram one and get ECE certification for both. Lamps made in Au for our cars are still tested and certified by authorities in Eu - look at lamps and bulbs and they all bear ECE marks.You would never use a non e marked bulb. Self levelling and washer systems were law in Eu for more than a decade. Incidentally neither Hella or Narva offer aftermarket HID headlamp systems that I am aware of .

The problem with poorly designed or dodgy systems is the control of light ie stray light. Still things change and I base my comments on past knowledge- eg have Philips now crossed over to make lighting systems rather than work with the set makers like Koito Hella Valeo etc- maybe. At least some forumites take the trouble like Locutus and CB to check things out- well done. I am still surprised that the projector lamps are not adequate. Not that I have checked but I seem to recall MX5 offered HID as an option for NC?

[Mr Morlock]

PS the reason for washers was that dust dirt etc on the lense can affect light causing dazzle and self levelling is to prevent lights tilting up when boot or back seat is loaded.

[Locutus]

no problems wiring up the headlight washers to your windscreen washer switch CB - in fact most OEM set ups work this way. however, i think the dust/dirt removal thing is also a myth.

i am convinced that the primary purpose of headlight washers are to remove salt/snow/ice build up when driving in cold weather conditions. how can opaque dust/dirt on the headlight cover result in glare for oncoming traffic? if anything, dust/dirt will more likely reduce glare due to the reduced light output!

salt/snow/ice build up on headlights can act like a lens and change the refractive index of the headlight covers, which in turn can affect the projected light output. the ADRs stipulate that the washer system must be able to function correctly in below freezing conditions and also be able to work with an alcohol (an anti-freezing agent) cleaning solution.

not sure about the local market, but in the US, headlight washers come as part of a BMW 'cold weather package' regardless of the type of headlights fitted to the car.

[Mr Morlock]

whatever way you slice or dice any headlamp conversion you do even fitting or rigging up washers will have never be certified for the NC ie not legal- the cost of certifying lamps is way beyond any privateer . I always wear glasses for night driving. Daniel Sterns website is interesting and his views about HID aftermarket is very blunt http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... sions.html

[Tezzax5]

Hid lights are hot when working for any long length of time..

1..softens the outer plastic lens housing and any debris such as bugs and rubbish flicked up by other cars can stick to the softened plastic

2..with the heat issue i was told by both BMW and VW to never use head light protectors

[Charlie Brown]

no problems wiring up the headlight washers to your windscreen washer switch CB - in fact most OEM set ups work this way. however, I think the dust/dirt removal thing is also a myth.

When looking through the ADR's it became very apparent that the content there was just a cut and paste from a European standard. The table showing the measurement screen (ADR 77/00 Appendix A, Annex 3) is the wrong way around for RHD cars!!! It even says "The above screen describes a right hand traffic passing beam. The screen for left hand traffic passing beam is mirrored about the VV line." So you're correct. We're just blindly following EU. I wonder if all EU cars were fitted with bull bars if we'd do the same?

So I'll keep my beams low and being a 4300k bulb in a relatively "new" car, hopefully I won't attract any unwanted attention as it looks OEM.

PS. I was followed through the ED last night by an Audi Q7 4WD with HID. If a "car" of that height passes the glare test, anything will!!!

[greenMachine]

I was followed through the ED last night by an Audi Q7 4WD with HID. If a "car" of that height passes the glare test, anything will!!!

I know exactly what you mean CB. I was (thankfully only briefly) followed by a LR Discovery (or possibly a RR) one night a week or so ago, and it was excruciatingly bright. I don't know if it was high beam or low, but it seemed too bright for low . Seemed like a great occasion for my first go at a road rage incident starring me as the road rager ...

[Mr Morlock]

as stated earlier- Au used Eu as the standards with some variations. In low sports cars we do suffer with extra bright lights in the rr vis. US stds were simply archaic and inferior but even they are know using Eu style lighting. All vehicles should have their headlights set correctly but many are not right and owners have no care or do not know. You would expect an oe light correctly set should not be a problem?? Just maybe HID's are too bright- owners might know- regularly being "flashed" by other drivers is a pointer.

[rjastra2]

Australia has decided to "harmonise" its ADRs with the EU. The regs on HID is one of these.
The EU requires auto levelling and washers on cars fitted with HID headlights (and probably LED ones)

On the other hand the USA and Canada do not require auto levelling, or washers for cars fitted with HIDS.

Then again then standard for automotive lighting is not to the standard we have here. Their beam patterns are usually less defined and have a definite centre hotspot. Not to mention they allow headlights to throw alot more light vertically... Apparently it was to help people see all the unlit freeway overhead signs.

[Locutus]

Hid lights are hot when working for any long length of time..

1..softens the outer plastic lens housing and any debris such as bugs and rubbish flicked up by other cars can stick to the softened plastic

2..with the heat issue i was told by both BMW and VW to never use head light protectors

i'm not sure that this makes sense. here is some simple maths to show you what i mean.

a typical replacement to 60/55W halogen headlamp would be a 35W HID bulb.

for argument's sake i'm going to assume i have a HID lamp that is 100% inefficient - i.e. 100% of the electrical energy going into a HID lamp is converted to heat.
this means my HID lamp can produce a maximum of 35W of heat output.

for a 55W halogen lamp to produce less than 35W of heat, the halogen lamp will need to be at the very minimum, 36.4% efficient.
according to wikipedia, a standard halogen lamp has an overall luminous efficiency of only 3.5%!
this means that our 55W halogen lamp is actually outputting around 52W of heat.

[Tezzax5]

Hid lights are hot when working for any long length of time..

1..softens the outer plastic lens housing and any debris such as bugs and rubbish flicked up by other cars can stick to the softened plastic

2..with the heat issue i was told by both BMW and VW to never use head light protectors

i'm not sure that this makes sense. here is some simple maths to show you what i mean.

a typical replacement to 60/55W halogen headlamp would be a 35W HID bulb.

for argument's sake i'm going to assume i have a HID lamp that is 100% inefficient - i.e. 100% of the electrical energy going into a HID lamp is converted to heat.
this means my HID lamp can produce a maximum of 35W of heat output.

for a 55W halogen lamp to produce less than 35W of heat, the halogen lamp will need to be at the very minimum, 36.4% efficient.
according to wikipedia, a standard halogen lamp has an overall luminous efficiency of only 3.5%!
this means that our 55W halogen lamp is actually outputting around 52W of heat.

I most definitely agree with your math but i wonder if the warnings they gave me had more to do with heat and the UV stabiliser that is used to stop the plastic lenses
from braking down and going cloudy?

Thoughts ?

t

[NitroDann]

Im pretty sure those wattages refer to energy output not power draw. you could test it very easily though.

Dann