Yet another stereo upgrade :)

[Benny]

I have a set of Focal Splits in my car, and they sound fantastic.
Probably the best speakers I've ever heard in a car, ad I've been an audiophile for longer than you have been alive!
Not cheap though, as these ones were aorund $1500 for the set including tweeters.

They sound better than the top of the line stereo I ordered and paid through the nose for with my Mercedes (a Bose system).

They are a smidgeon sharp in the treble, but when you mount them in a car, with all the noise etc., they sound perfect, even at low volumes.

I also have an 8" Alpine sub in the boot in a custom made enclosure, that takes up very little space in the boot as it is off to one side so only takes up the space under the left gaurd. If I really need to, it just pulls out and unplugs.

I only have an el-cheapo JVC head unit that I bought a few years ago, but it does the job well, doesn't look like a Tokyo jukebox and also has a USB plug in the front, so I can just plug in a USB key with my music on it, which takes up a lot less space than 50CD's!
Because it's a cheap unit, it doesn't attract attention either.

If you ever come to Sydney, let me know, and I'll be glad to let you have a listen to it.

[muzzy66]

For my NA, I'm thinking about a pair of boston SC65, or infinity Reference 6032.

Given it has standard headrest speakers, I'm also toying with the idea of Boston S35 in there... (completed sourced cost of 1 x pair SC 65 and 2 x pairs S35 = <$300AUD)

Oh, and yes, I'm a fan of Dynaudio way back.. and that's what I use at home, altyhough i didnt tick the Dyn option box on my daily (car) driver....

Boston coaxials aren't too bad. Nicer then a lot of others out there, but I'd probably still lean towards Rainbow / Morel for a more natural and accurate sound.

Dynaudio...I'd probably best not comment on, because people tend to get upset when I do! I'm not a fan of their car audio products, lets leave it at that...and that's putting it nicely.

I have a set of Focal Splits in my car, and they sound fantastic.
Probably the best speakers I've ever heard in a car, ad I've been an audiophile for longer than you have been alive!
Not cheap though, as these ones were aorund $1500 for the set including tweeters.

They sound better than the top of the line stereo I ordered and paid through the nose for with my Mercedes (a Bose system).

Focal's aren't bad speakers - they are one of the few car audio brands I have some remote degree of respect for. Still not a match for good (and much cheaper) DIY hifi gear, but by car audio standards they are definately one of my preferred brands.

Only downside with Focal is that they tend to sound better in a sound board or bookshelf speaker then they do in a car - reason for this is that their tweeters are pretty simple and lack low frequency power handling, and this forces Focal to cross them over very high (generally aroud 3.5khz) to avoid damaging the tweeters and introducing distortion issues. This is a big downside in the car, because once you mount your mids off axis they aren't going to give you much useful information above 1.6khz-1.8khz, so understandably this creates a bit of an issue when your tweeters don't really take over until 3.5khz. The result is a big hold in the upper midrange between 2khz and 3.5khz, and this happens to be dead in the centre of the most critical part of the midrange (the part where you have the most important information, and where our ears are most sensitive).

The Focal mids are quite nice and I've always been a fan. If they could come up with a tweeter with some legit bottom end performance, that would allow a crossover down to at least about 2.5khz, then the improvement would be huge.

As for sounding better then the Bose system in the Merc, that's really no surprise. BOSE gear is terrible...horridly overpriced and underperforming, and the perfect example of a brand that sells purely on name and nothing else.

Hell I've actually been in identical model cars, one with an optional BOSE upgrade and one with the standard sound system, and the one with the standard system sounded FAR better. The BOSE system essentially just had a mass of muddy, overblown bass/midbass and nothing else, while the standard setup actually sounded pretty reasonable.

Subaru and Lexus reportedly have the right idea with the McIntosh and Mark Levinson systems - both brands are held in much higher esteem then BOSE among enthusiasts.

Plus it IS a factory / OEM system. I'd expect even a faily entry level aftermarket system - if properly installed - to sound better then any OEM system. Car companies build their cars for the average joe in mind, not for the hardcore audio enthusiast - I assure you that when it comes to priorities, hi fidelity audio is right on the bottom of the list.

[Inksta]

Hi again. Thanks guys, this thread is full of useful information.

It turns out that there really isn't anywhere in SA to audition Morel, Hertz or Rainbow speakers. Given that I wasn't blown away by the Bostons and Focals I was able to audition, I sprung for the Scanspeak splits from Madisound that you recommended, Muzzy. So if I hate them it's all your fault

After everything I read and heard, I obviously chose to go for splits rather than coax. I'll make sure it's covered by my insurance and cross my fingers

I went to Bryan at Car Gear for the Solid 4 amp, which I'm picking up tomorrow.

I'm left with two decisions:
1) Where to mount the tweeters. Hopefully there's somewhere in the NA that sounds good without breaking the stealth too much.
2) Whether to get Car Gear to do the install or to do it myself. Pros and cons to both.

I think I'll wait for all the gear to arrive before deciding.

Will post back here when I have more to report!

Woot.

[chrisearl88]

hey dude, seems like your pretty onto the money. If you can part with the boot space get a box like this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mazda-Miata- ... 500wt_1156

I know your not really interested in the doof doof, but by having a dedicated sub you can high pass filter your front speakers at maybe 80hz which really helps them out! I got that box, which nicely tucks away with a pioneer 10 inch sub. Many amps will allow you to run a subwoofer control, i have one just in the pocket above the lighter socket. That way you can tune the doof to your liking, me i've got it cranked 247.

Sure you could probably high pass without a sub, but would you be happy with nothing bellow 50hz? Most door speakrers ill start to show degreded sound quality if you try and push anything below 60 hz. But sounds really subjective mate, its kinda hard to know exactly what you want till you hear it.

[Inksta]

Thanks Chris. I'll consider a sub later on when I've had a chance to get used to the splits, and when the bank balance has recovered

[muzzy66]

Good choice on those Scan's I think - to be honest, if I had to go with passive splits below $400 I'd have done the same. Sub $500 car splits really are fairly primitive - from my personal experience, I've found that you need to spend about $800 minimum for a set of car splits that sound even nearly on the same level as $300 worth of well installed hifi gear.

No exhageration either - the last time I did a round of 'speaker auditions' I listened to a group of splits ranging in price from about $800 and way upwards...and the only set I heard that sounded nearly as good as my $150/pair SB Acoustics tweeters and $150/pair SB Acoustics mids were the Microprecision 7 series...at around $3,500 a set.

The last time I was really serious in competition, I changed from a custom $2,000 Rainbow 3-way front stage, and my brother built a system using some $180/pair Peerless HDS woofers and $300/pair Scanspeak tweeters - at about $480 a pair he was convinced that his setup could be a match for mine, and I thoughtit laughable. Then I heard his, and I realised that it wasn't such a laughable idea after all. It wasn't as accomplished overall as mine, but his install was rough as it gets and he didn't really know a lot at the time about tuning active systems...that system had the potential to outperform mine simply because of the ability of time speakers themselves.

It was at this time that I started believing in his side of things and did research for myself...and before long I was running a 2-way Scanspeak front stage worth about half that of the Rainbow one. Wiht it I was getting much better scores despite the fact that I jumped up into Pro class with the new setup, so I was taking on professional installers with decades of experience.

I've had instances where I've thought about going back to simple car splits purely for the simplicity of it (active systems are a pain) but no car speakers I've heard were ever really accurate enough to satisfy me at anything even resembling a reasonable price. I always wished one of the grear DIY brands (Seas, Peerless, Scanspeak, etc) would bring out aquality set of splits...and what do you know, now now they have!

[muzzy66]

muzzy66:
Where is an update on your car audio install! Have I missed it somewhere! I was so excited haha

Getting started on this now!

My camera battery just died so pics will need to wait, but will start putting up some info

[Inksta]

Just doing my own install at the mo, would love to see more of your process Muzzy.

All my equipment arrived... very snazzy!

Headunit:
Really nice bit of kit. Lots of adapters etc included. One of the best things about it is that it's got a separate digital to analogue converter that is half a DIN. That means the whole unit is 1.5 DIN, and that means that it fits perfectly in to the stock NA tombstone. Score!

Amp:
Another nice bit of kit. Really compact. Easy to get set up and get going.

Speakers:
Haven't gone in yet, but they look cool and come with a few mounting adapters.


All of the manuals are well written which is a bonus as well.


I've installed the head unit and amp, and got the wiring in. Ran out of light today before I could do the speakers. Might get a shop to do the rest during the week (won't have time myself until next weekend... impatient!).

Will update when it's all up and running.

[muzzy66]

With the speaker install, try to:
1. Get the tweeter and mid the same distance from the listening position (or close as possible) - this is achievable in the NA6 if you go deep in the a-pillar, as the doors and pillars are very similar in distance. If you want to avoid this for the sake of stealth, then you can go in the kicks...but try to keep it as close as posssible to the mid in this case.

2. Try try to get the tweeter as far on-axis as possible, as scanspeak tweeters have typically got a nice flat on axis response.

3. Make sure .you get an mdf baffle made for the mids and uae gasket tape to create a good seal.

[Inksta]

Well, after my little alternator episode last night, I finally have everything in and working.

I've only had a chance to listen to the system for about 10 minutes, but I'm very happy so far. The clarity is very impressive. The bass is a little lost at higher speeds but hopefully some Dynamat will assist there.

Thanks for your tips, Muzzy. I've tried to follow them as closely as I could, although I had to make some compromises (notably tweeter placement). The tweeters have gone in flush in the kicks not far from the woofer, although further than I would have liked. I got Car Gear to put the speakers in yesterday as I just haven't had time to do it myself.

My main problem now is that the head unit is refusing to play CDs. I had heard these head units were delicate, so I wasn't going to use it for CDs much, but it is a bit of an issue as I can't play the calibration disc which I was planning on using to tune the separate DAC unit.

Anyway thanks for the tips Muzzy and for the suggestion of Scan Speak. I am blown away by the clarity. I had trouble stopping myself driving along with my head down near the bottom of the steering wheel in between the splits

[muzzy66]

Glad to hear you like them

Pity you couldn't get the tweeters closer, but I know it is hard to in the NA's if you go in the kicks.

If you do eventually get a sub, I'd recommend crossing the speakers over at probably 80 -120hz...if the sub is up to the task. You need a pretty good quality SQ sub to be able to play clean up to 120hz, but 80hz is more doable.

[Inksta]

Cheers, I'll bear that in mind

Actually I have a question for you.

When I first booted it all up, I had the amp's gain set to 'MIN'. This was just too quiet (had to put the headunit to max volume on the highway to hear conversations properly on the radio). I now have the gain set to halfway between MIN and MAX and it sounds about right (the headunit's max volume is '60' and with this level of gain I don't think I'd ever go much further than '40'). Is it normal to have to set the gain higher like that? Before installation, I had assumed the gain would be set low or minimum, given that the headunit is putting out 5 volts, the amp is bridged for 200 watts x 2 channels, and the speakers are rated at 75 watts.

As this is my first proper car stereo I'm unsure what is normal.

[sliq]

I have a set of Focal Splits in my car, and they sound fantastic.
Probably the best speakers I've ever heard in a car, ad I've been an audiophile for longer than you have been alive!
Not cheap though, as these ones were aorund $1500 for the set including tweeters.

don't listen to benny - he's got expensive taste . but he's right; they are at the (very) high end of car audio you can get.

i got a pair of kevlar splits from jaycar. did just fine. had enough clarity when you drove with the top down, powered with a baby kenwood amp and an old school MP3 pioneer system (back when they were built to last, not the crap you buy off the shelf these days)

[Jeo]

Basic version of setting your gains.

Turn the gains all the way down.
Turn the head unit volume as high as it goes.
Turn the gains up untill you can hear distortion, then back it off a little.
Tada! Now, no matter how high you (or anyone else) turn the volume up from the cabin, you can't hurt your speakers.

[Inksta]

Cool bananas. Cheers mate