boosting on a low budget

[slimx]

Let's say i have a VERY SMALL BUDGET, LOW AS POSSIBLE

What is the CHEAPEST WAY.. i can supercharge or turbo my car...
How much will it cost.
1.8L 6sp NB Series II motor is stock as a rock!

I've read about centrifugal superchargers being very cheap.. ?
turbo seems to cost alot more.
Well yeh anyway my question is as follows CHEAPEST thing i can do..
(NOT INCLUDING labour, i reckon i can do most of the work myself nothings hard with all the tutorials u see online probably end up paying to get my car tuned thats about it).

I wanna do it for now, just to get my little boost enjoyment going ..

[Orphan]

Put aside at least $5k before you even start. I'd go turbo over s/c any day unless the car came with it.

If you ebay it you could probably get a china exhaust manifold for cheap and then a GT2560 or something smallish for a reasonable price but you will still need a 3" turbo back exhaust, intake, intercooler + piping, wideband o2 sensor, injectors, ecu etc. Tuning will cost a fair wack and can easily exceed $800-1200 alone. Why not check out of the flying miata turbo kits, seem to be reasonable value for money seeing as they include pretty much everything you need.

You could probably do it fairly cheap yourself if you have the ability but its the little things that get you, the extra this and that that all bloat the price out to well above what you thought you could do it for.

EDIT: forgot clutch, bov and some more suitable spark plugs as well as fuel pump.

[slimx]

I have a friend for all the tuning (incl. remapping etc.)

Not scared of that, parts are my fear so u realy think turbo? And atleast 5k? ƒü¢k man rotary 13B TURBO conversion is gonna cost me 8k id rather wait for that.. so its impossible to get it cheaper??

[Lokiel]

saboteur's supercharged NB (sold recently) was well set up - he's probably the best guy to advise you on this route.

The piggyback ECU you'll need will cost anywhere from $800-$3500 new though you may be able to pick one up cheaper 2nd hand. Don't be afraid of doing this though, it's not like ECUs take a beating, even when the car itself is thrashed. Now that the Adaptronic e440 has superceded the e420c (a commonly used MX% piggyback ECU), you may be able to pick up and e420c cheaply.

[zossy1]

ND will no doubt chime in soon, but you can boost for far less than $5k if you can DIY and aren't afraid of foregoing engineering requirements (not recommended but you asked for cheap).

The BEGi shanghai kits can be had for around the $1300 mark IIRC. Add a MS DIYPNP built by Braineack of mt.net fame and you are looking at around $2.5k with shipping. Add injectors and an eBay FMIC and you are pretty much there for around $3k if you DIY.

Even cheaper would be to buy eBay crap but then longevity becomes an issue. Manifolds crack mostly.

Sourcing a second hand setup from a mt.net user who is willing to ship to Oz is another option and could yield some huge savings for good equipment.

Another option which I'm sure ND can elaborate on is putting together a home brew kit using s14/15 bits and whatever else you can find.

[slimx]

3k sounds so much more attractive.
Second hand im happy with.. So u guys r recommending supercharge is cheaper? or turbo??

cause from research turbo seems to hvae so much more moving parts.. then a supercharger, ive nver had a supercharger to be sure..

Alot of research i did on the topic lead me to centrifugal superchargers wihich alot of the time dont need an intercooler? and give atleast a good 8psi of boost in the process. and acts like a turbo provides power at high end, rather than low as it brings strain on the engine. Im happy with even 5 pound boost long as the car moves that little bit quicker i am all ears. I jus twant a cheapp cheap solution.

Turbo seems to exceed automatically $2800+ mark, Centrifugal superchargers (ON OTHER CARS) only seem to be costing around $1500. and on top of that tuning...

[jerrah]

SC or Turbo I'd be running an intercooler and doing a lot of reading.

[Orphan]

Yes you can get it done for under $5k but there is no point starting unless you have the cash up front. It's the little stuff that blows out the price.

You can only have two of these three: Fast - Cheap - Reliable/Quality

Most of the ebay manifolds are absolute crap, monkeys could fabricate better gear not to mention they are almost all log design aka pretty crappy. You have to remember the materials alone for a good manifold cost more than the ebay manifolds. They are notorious for cracking, exhaust wrap should help but won't eliminate the issue. The cast manifold available will never have this issue though most of them have an appauling flow design. You have to take into consideration that any cheap approach could cost quite a bit to fix later. Cheap ass SS manifold will eventually crack which means you will have to take it off and get it repaired which will probably cost you 50%+ the price of the thing, what happens when your shanghai turbo dies? Then you will need to buy a replacement. Suddenly your cheap set up is bleeding out the ass and costing you more than it would have cost to just do it right to start with.

Looking around you can easily get a manifold + dump + front pipe for under $500, can probably snag a T28 BB off the silvia boys in decent condition for a few hundred. Get a DIY intercooler kit for $300 or less (need to be able to weld/cut/etc). So far you are up to around $1000 + shipping. Can probably get a cheapie 2.5-3" exhaust for less than the cost of a decent high flow cat though from any reputable source you will be looking at $600-1000, add in a DIY intake kit and you are probably at around $1800ish now you need an ECU + wideband O2 sensor, bov + plumbing + new injectors if you want to make any decent power. You have just busted past $3000 and have a half ass kit with less than ideal componants of sub standard quality and haven't accounted for all the little odds and ends including clutch, hoses etc. Good work.

On the topic of superchargers you are overlooking the little stuff. yes you may be able to get a suitable supercharger for $1500ish, does this include mounting hardware + pulley and belt as well as intake pipe and charge pipe to the intake manifold? Not to mention you will still need an ECU + clutch + other bits and pieces which puts you up to the same $3000+ range of low end turbo set up's. They will sap some of your low down power. Yes you can run them without intercoolers but you are really limited in power potential and efficiency. You want the engine ingesting the coolest air it can, this makes you more power but also safer as detonation is less likely (unless it is a very poor tune).

You can probably put together a decent DIY set up but it will take a LOT of time and effort finding the right parts, modifying things and shopping for good condition used items. If you had the experience to do this you wouldn't be asking about the cheapest way to turbo your car anyways. If MX-5's all came turbo from factory then it would cost a lot less for a bit of extra power but going from N/A to FI costs a lot more. This ain't no Need for Speed game you can just purchase the "Stage 2" upgrade for $800 and get another 50-100hp.

Possibly consider selling your car an buying someone elses turbo'd/S/C'd? There have been a few for sale for very reasonable prices given the amount of work and dollar value of mods. If you cheap out you will always get bitten in the ass sooner or later. Do it right then you don't have to worry about it. Seriously don't even bother if you are going to cheap out and find $2800+ an expensive figure. Suspension/wheels/brakes/tires can easily set you back $4000+. Take a look at any factory turbo car also, S15/Supra/Evo/Skyline, even when you have all the hardware to start with it still costs thousands to improve on with quality gear. There are very few things that are cheap when it comes to cars.

[orx626]

They will sap some of your low down power.

Hi Orphan, positive displacement superchargers actually do the opposite.

Regards,
Danny

[Orphan]

Sorry I should have made it clear I was refering to centrifugal superchargers. Root's still suffer a low down loss though it is dependant on the supercharger choice as until they are making significant positive pressure (usually fairly early) they are only putting extra load on the engine with no gain though many modern units are running bypass valves these days so when you are cruising or not on the power the load is significantly reduced.

Another point for turbo > supercharger is that superchargers requires power to make power, to turn the supercharger to make boost uses significant engine power compared to turbo applications that use waste energy to provide boost. If you take a supercharger and a turbocharger that flow the same amount of air at a set engine rpm the turbo will always make more power as it is not sapping engine power to make it. Again to make more power out of a supercharger puts more load on the engine so the more power you make the more you are losing and eventually you will need an intercooler if you plan to raise power levels more so you end up with most of the plumbing of a turbo set up but none of the benefits. Couple this with most of the available supercharger kits not being exactly 'cheap' and its not hard to see why turbo is a favorable set up in many ways. Yes roots style superchargers make power lower than most turbo's and deliver power in a more linear fashion but when most people only want 160-250whp out of their MX-5 there are plenty of smaller turbo's that can deliver this in a reasonably linear fashion and not be far off a supercharger down low and lets be honest here, when you are on it you are going to be into 3,000rpm-7,500rpm the whole time so boost under that is of little consequence. I do hate rubber band power/torque curves that many high hp turbo vehicles have but when the required power figure is actually quite low you can get excellent usable power/torque that can rival a supercharger but gives you more top end and allows for much easier power changes if you so wish.

BTW Danny you have some nice cars there

[slimx]

Thank u for the replies

I guess its jst gnoa set me back .. lol
Ill jus twait for my future plans when i got the money

ROTARY

[Bizi]

If someone wanted to go the DIY turbo route - how about a Nissan transplant?

Once again it might be a lot of fabrication, but the engine/ECU package may well be already sorted and reasonably reliable and it's mainly about getting stuff to fit where it needs to.

Is this done often enough that it's reasonable if you have the ability/experience/talent/resources to do a lot of your own fabrication?

I think that Bretauto's car would be the best route - a car massaged and set up by someone who knows what they are doing. It might cost more to start with but potentially a lot more reliable and less cost over time, plus maybe much more fun as a proper racecar.

Hmm, tempting.

[Orphan]

If you have the time and ability I think a JDM s14/s15 SR20DET (BB T28) would be a sweet swap. Can get the motor + turbo and accessories + loom + gear box for $2500ish. Mounts would be a bit annoying but there is a mob that sells them for $1200ish from memory (yes pricey). When you consider what you get for the money its quite good, a 2L oversquare alloy engine that easily holds 350whp on stock internals and can make 200-220rwkw (260-280whp) with stock turbo + ugpraded injectors and a tune. The cost actually isn't too far off what many spend to turbo/supercharge their MX-5's. Does anyone know how much the BP weighs? Could end up lighter than stock or at least offset the weight of the turbo + plumbing. When I checked out some SR20 swaps it appears that you need to trim a bit of the frame rail overhang that joins the firewall for the stock location dump pipe to clear - not a big deal though may be an issue when it comes time to get the thing engineered.

[NitroDann]

WOW WOW WOW,

But patrick bramstons NA.

Sell your car, and have his pefectly engineered super reliable blown na.

trust me.

Dann

[red devil]

If you have the time and ability I think a JDM s14/s15 SR20DET (BB T28) would be a sweet swap. Can get the motor + turbo and accessories + loom + gear box for $2500ish. Mounts would be a bit annoying but there is a mob that sells them for $1200ish from memory (yes pricey). When you consider what you get for the money its quite good, a 2L oversquare alloy engine that easily holds 350whp on stock internals and can make 200-220rwkw (260-280whp) with stock turbo + ugpraded injectors and a tune. The cost actually isn't too far off what many spend to turbo/supercharge their MX-5's. Does anyone know how much the BP weighs? Could end up lighter than stock or at least offset the weight of the turbo + plumbing. When I checked out some SR20 swaps it appears that you need to trim a bit of the frame rail overhang that joins the firewall for the stock location dump pipe to clear - not a big deal though may be an issue when it comes time to get the thing engineered.

If your located in NSW your sh*t out of luck when it comes to removing anything from the frame rails! after a conversation with an engineer i was told that nothing can be taken away from the chasis, but you can add to it! true an sr20 can hold Xamount of hp but at the end of the day you might "only" spend 2.5k on buying everything but it'll be more hassels than its worth IMO. You still need to get a custom tailshaft made up, mounts for the gearbox and diff (cos i dont think your gonna fit the sr gearbox and still keep the PPF) and all the other misc things! buy your self a proper turbo set up, get a proper exhaust made up and a good ECU it'll be cheaper in the long run and you wont have as many headaches, and on top of that you'll still need to engineer the car. I my self will be completeing a NA to turbo conversion by the end of the year, and from what i have researched its going (including what i have already spent) aound $5k completely engineered. At the risk of sounding like a complete dick, if you want a cheap turbo buy a 180sx it'll save you going into a world of MX5TURBO depression!

Thats my 2c Eren