Buying Timing Belt / Waterpump Kit

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Tue May 03, 2011 6:52 pm

Hi, I have decided to go the cost effective route and buy the timing belt and waterpump kit and then work out whether I do the work mysef or get an MX-5 specialist to do the work. Firstly I save potentially around half the cost of getting Mazda to do it and secondly I can spread the cost over a few months. I can buy the parts and then do the work a few months later.

Now as many of you may be aware there are many places selling many types of kits with many combinations of Mazda/OEM and aftermarket parts.

For instance MX5mania sells a kit for $299 that includes a genuine rocker cover seal a solidace belt and a japanese water pump http://www.mx5mania.com.au/product1833.htm

There is this from Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... _627wt_908 for around $250 landed.
with
1. Bando / Gates Timing Belt.
1. GMB Timing Belt Tensioner.
1. GMB Timing Belt Idler.
1. GMB Water Pump Kit with Gaskets and Water Pipe O-Ring.
1. Mazda Valve Cover Gasket.
1. Mazda V-Tec Intake Cam Seal.
1. Mazda Exhaust Cam Seal.
!. Mazda Front Crankshaft Seal.

Now the question I have is what company makes good components. Obviously Mazda branded parts would be well made but how are Gates and GMB and Dayco and Solidace etc.

Who makes these parts for Mazda and which parts are the critical ones for needing to be genuine.

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:06 pm

Gates and Dayco make good stuff. Not so sure about the other brands. Gates is generally my first choice for timing belts.

You feel up to doing this job? I remember you asking about how to remove the radiator recently - this job is far more complicated than that. For a beginner, it could take an entire weekend - and if you stuff it up (and there is a lot that can go wrong), you'll have to do it all over again...

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:09 pm

By the way, that kit you quoted from ebay in the OP - it is the wrong kit. It is an NB8B kit and from memory you have a NA8.

ak_perth · Postby **ak_perth** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:11 pm

Very scary job! I imagine dire consequences if it's not done properly! :oops:

Good luck with it. Personally i'd rather pay a professional and have the piece of mind that it's done right. However if you know what you're doing and you're confident than that's ok!

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:28 pm

you are best advised to use OE product- esp belt and water pump. The aftermarket products can be a pig in a poke- often the seals etc and other items are incorrect- the cross reference charts are often wrong. The OE stuff is dearer but I know of one well known Vic repairer that only uses OE- he does not have to but is confident that the job does not go wrong.

You can buy aftermarket pumps but you simply do not know what is the standard of QA or the quality of materials- they may be fine and maybe not. Anything you buy from OS you are stuck with- try returning them . I bought a cam cover gasket ( well known maker) from Repco and it turned out incorrect- the OE one was pricey x3 but fitted. Repco refunded me on return of the unused gskt despite having bought it nearly 12 mths before. A choice of Mania or overseas is no contest for a piddling $50

If you check Mazda- like Ringwood- talk to the blokes in spares they will tell you what is normally replaced on the big service like the tensioner spring - idler pulleys can be checked in situ etc and some of these items are pricey.You did not mention ac and pwr strg belts, If you have a mate in the business you may get a trade price.

Doing it yourself. It is not an easy job- some experience is definitely useful- getting a tooth out or not setting it up correctly is easily done.You have to read and sift out the bumf from the right steps. You can save some money but one has to weigh up - do you really want to do it? - it does not have to be top dollar rates of a dealer. The crank pulley is probably best held using a US sourced bracket eg Rennametal. Mechanics do this work very regularly and there is a guarantee on their work- it is instructive that a professional on the spanners everyday knows what needs to be done and the tips, pitfalls and traps.

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Tue May 03, 2011 10:34 pm

Mr Morlock wrote:you are best advised to use OE product- esp belt and water pump. The aftermarket products can be a pig in a poke- often the seals etc and other items are incorrect- the cross reference charts are often wrong. The OE stuff is dearer but I know of one well known Vic repairer that only uses OE- he does not have to but is confident that the job does not go wrong.

You can buy aftermarket pumps but you simply do not know what is the standard of QA or the quality of materials- they may be fine and maybe not. Anything you buy from OS you are stuck with- try returning them . I bought a cam cover gasket ( well known maker) from Repco and it turned out incorrect- the OE one was pricey x3 but fitted. Repco refunded me on return of the unused gskt despite having bought it nearly 12 mths before. A choice of Mania or overseas is no contest for a piddling $50

If you check Mazda- like Ringwood- talk to the blokes in spares they will tell you what is normally replaced on the big service like the tensioner spring - idler pulleys can be checked in situ etc and some of these items are pricey.You did not mention ac and pwr strg belts, If you have a mate in the business you may get a trade price.

Doing it yourself. It is not an easy job- some experience is definitely useful- getting a tooth out or not setting it up correctly is easily done.You have to read and sift out the bumf from the right steps. You can save some money but one has to weigh up - do you really want to do it? - it does not have to be top dollar rates of a dealer. The crank pulley is probably best held using a US sourced bracket eg Rennametal. Mechanics do this work very regularly and there is a guarantee on their work- it is instructive that a professional on the spanners everyday knows what needs to be done and the tips, pitfalls and traps.

I am leaning towards getting it done by a professional. I was quote $220 by Motorsports Essentials, which I feel is quite reasonable. Its not that I don't feel up to the challenge. I know I can do it and can do it properly. Its just that I will probably take 4 times longer and whether $220 is worth eight hours of my time plus skinned knuckles plus not getting the service history.

As for the Mazda vs aftermarket, I do know that Mazda does not make the parts themselves, they use suppliers and often more than one. Many manufacturers would be able to meet global OEM manufacturing standards. Having said that some have better quality than others. Does anyone know the company that supplied these parts to Mazda.

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Tue May 03, 2011 10:36 pm

zossy1 wrote:By the way, that kit you quoted from ebay in the OP - it is the wrong kit. It is an NB8B kit and from memory you have a NA8.

You are right I picked the wrong one.

Here is the right one.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Master-Timing-Be ... _666wt_908

Does it seem OK.

SuperMazdaKart · Postby **SuperMazdaKart** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:07 pm

isn't GMB the reliable one out of the aftermarket brands?

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:09 pm

The critical ones where you really should go with Mazda are the crankshaft oil seals.

I've used the ebay kits with very good results except for those seals. Gates and GMB parts are as good as OEM, if not better. All of the gaskets and other bits have been fine too. I just didn't like the look of the kit seals - too hard - and used Mazda supplied seals on my car. I tried an ebay front crank seal on my son's old Astina and it failed after 6 months. Your ebay link suggests it's a Mazda seal in the kit, if not then go to Mazda for it and throw the kit one away

I doubt that Mazda always supplies OEM quality components through its parts network here. Quite frankly some of the other Mazda supplied service bits I've used have been fairly dodgy - I'm mainly talking about poorly made and poorly dimensioned gaskets.

All B6 and BP motors can get terminal crank nose damage from incorrectly done belt changes. If you do decide to get it done professionally then either make sure it's a Mazda specialist or if you go to Dean then take all the short/long nose crank problem stuff from miata.net along with you and talk to him about it first.

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:16 pm

snshami wrote:I am leaning towards getting it done by a professional. I was quote $220 by Motorsports Essentials, which I feel is quite reasonable..

I assume this is just for labour...?

This is VERY cheap for this job.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45821&p=577274

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:22 pm

zossy1 wrote:
snshami wrote:I am leaning towards getting it done by a professional. I was quote $220 by Motorsports Essentials, which I feel is quite reasonable..

I assume this is just for labour...?

This is VERY cheap for this job.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45821&p=577274

Yes it is just for labour. Its supposed to be a 2 hours job for a pro.

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:24 pm

SuperMazdaKart wrote:isn't GMB the reliable one out of the aftermarket brands?

GMB is a Japanese company so there is an excellent chance they may have been one of Mazda's original supplier. If thats the case then the Mazda branded part would be the same as the GMB part.

wun911 · Postby **wun911** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:21 am

I have to admit 220 bucks is really really cheap labour must be an asian refugee or something...

snshami · Postby **snshami** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:46 am

wun911 wrote:I have to admit 220 bucks is really really cheap labour must be an asian refugee or something...

No it is one of the people recommended by this forum.

jerrah · Postby **jerrah** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:00 am

99% sure the GMB waterpump is the same as OEM.

I bought a kit but I found that the NB6 waterpump was different to a NA6 waterpump (one out of kit and one from Repco) but luckily Repco had a BP pump that happened to be identical to my old one. They are a slightly different design. I also found the seals in the ebay kit were substandard and the timing belt appeared to be rubbish so I bought another.

I did the work at home myself but on first start up the car was running like rubbish. I pulled it all down again and found I was 1 tooth off on the exhaust cam. The car has been fine ever since.