1.7 all motor

[Matty]

It's true that turbo is a easier and cheaper option to increase the power, but even they can both make foe example 150 atwhp, they still feel different, and I like the non turbo feel, also If I go to the turbo route, I have to ditch all the effort I put on the car, I just dun want to see this happen=]
And I believe my 1.6 should be able to keep up with a 1.8, so 1.8 swap is not an option atm, unless I found a cheap one, and I will still do the exact same thing to it, just my 2.2c( gst included)

I might sound silly, but how can u say no to a done up engine with instance respond =]

I don't disagree with your last sentence. But I've been down your route and I know it is difficult to stop emotional attachment getting in the way of the end result.

Either swapping in a BP, or selling up and buying a NA8 (which nets you a whole host of other goodies like clutch, diff, brakes, synchros, power steering, newer car, etc) is by far the best option. You screw around with the motor less, you'll have more torque, more reliability (less custom parts), less need to spend time and money tuning it. And if you do tune up a 1.8 you will be that much further ahead again. The cost of selling your exhaust and fitting a new one is pittance in comparison to what you are talking.

If I were you I'd write up a spreadsheet mapping out the alternatives, and all the costs involved, as well as assesing the end result (in kW). Then walk away and think on it for a while before acting.

[NitroDann]

I dissagree, I agree that he wants the 1.8 torsen and probably the 6 speed, but seriously, why a BP? I have NEVER come across a BP without a blower or turbo that could keep near my NA6. All that work for 11% capacity? And less revs?
Patrick's 135 rwkw mp45 BP is only a fraction quicker than my NA6. like one length by 4th gear.

Dann

[Si.G]

Some good arguments here - I am building a 1.6 on itb's.

My reason for doing the build of a 1.6 over a BP is because you need to spend a fair bit of cash getting the right/good 1.8 engine only to then pull it part and spend the same amount of money or more re-building it. I don't think the power will be that different either, plus as has been said earlier, I have loads of parts centred around the B6 engine. Was tempted with the turbo path, but turbo = more expense, broken gearboxes, stronger diffs, clutch etc (in my mind).

I am also loving the challenge and the actual building. Plus is it something different - a surprise when people come over and say is it turbo'd!

I do have a feeling I could be wrong in the back of my mind and maybe I won't get what I think I can, but it will have been fun trying.
Si.

[criss]

if someone put the Maruha 2.1 L Stroker Kit into BP, i believe it should be faster than a builded 1.6 or even a 1.7 motor
the cost of it should similar to build a 1.7 motor??
given that the 2.1 kit is listed is around 5.5k aud, they dyno their prototype and it make 230atwhp and 25kgf-m torque
what is the power figure of the 1.7 motor?

[Si.G]

if someone put the Maruha 2.1 L Stroker Kit into BP, i believe it should be faster than a builded 1.6 or even a 1.7 motor
the cost of it should similar to build a 1.7 motor??
given that the 2.1 kit is listed is around 5.5k aud, they dyno their prototype and it make 230atwhp and 25kgf-m torque
what is the power figure of the 1.7 motor?

The whole build of my 1.6 will be around the same price (maybe a touch more), including, machine work (head and block), pistons, rods, pumps, cams, lifters etc. You don't get machining, cams, head work, cams, solid lifters and everything else that you need to make 230whp for the 5.5k, so add some more thousands for that kind of hp.

I totally take your point through - I am only chasing about 130-140hp so don't really need the large capacity.

[Matty]

I dissagree, I agree that he wants the 1.8 torsen and probably the 6 speed, but seriously, why a BP? I have NEVER come across a BP without a blower or turbo that could keep near my NA6. All that work for 11% capacity? And less revs?
Patrick's 135 rwkw mp45 BP is only a fraction quicker than my NA6. like one length by 4th gear.

Dann

I don't know anything about the spec of your car but it must either be good, or Patrick whoever that is is pulling your leg about having 135 rwkW. Or the circumstances under which you compare are biased.

Less revs? What gives you that idea?

You say "all that work for 11%* capacity" yet the OP wants to bore and stroke their engine... OK whatever you reckon. (*it's ~15% capacity increase by the way)

[NitroDann]

I dissagree, I agree that he wants the 1.8 torsen and probably the 6 speed, but seriously, why a BP? I have NEVER come across a BP without a blower or turbo that could keep near my NA6. All that work for 11% capacity? And less revs?
Patrick's 135 rwkw mp45 BP is only a fraction quicker than my NA6. like one length by 4th gear.

Dann

I don't know anything about the spec of your car but it must either be good, or Patrick whoever that is is pulling your leg about having 135 rwkW. Or the circumstances under which you compare are biased.

Less revs? What gives you that idea?

You say "all that work for 11%* capacity" yet the OP wants to bore and stroke their engine... OK whatever you reckon. (*it's ~15% capacity increase by the way)

Its patrick bramston, whos a member here, thats his username i think. Seen his dyno sheets, its a bp, with an mp45 with the biggest pulley, nice big frontmount and a haltech.
My car is lighter, has a 2 step, has flat shifting, revs to 8500rpm not 6500. and basically each gear his cars pulls a little forward then gear change, mine runs to 8500rpm and flat shifts back to being even. And yeah my car does have a decent spec sheet lol.

Dann

[rascal]

Its patrick bramston, whos a member here, thats his username i think. Seen his dyno sheets, its a bp, with an mp45 with the biggest pulley, nice big frontmount and a haltech.
My car is lighter, has a 2 step, has flat shifting, revs to 8500rpm not 6500. and basically each gear his cars pulls a little forward then gear change, mine runs to 8500rpm and flat shifts back to being even. And yeah my car does have a decent spec sheet lol.
Dann

Some thing still doesn't add up there.
A genuine 100rwkw n/a wouldn't get anywhere near a genuine 135rwkw supercharged in a straight line, regardless of how many revs you run to.
You could have the best spec sheet in the world, but your peak is still only 100kw vs 135kw and your n/a would have waay less torque than a s/c car.

Either your car is MASSIVELY lighter, or Patrick's gearchanges are slooow, or as Matty suggested its not a true apples to apples comparison.

[criss]

Its patrick bramston, whos a member here, thats his username i think. Seen his dyno sheets, its a bp, with an mp45 with the biggest pulley, nice big frontmount and a haltech.
My car is lighter, has a 2 step, has flat shifting, revs to 8500rpm not 6500. and basically each gear his cars pulls a little forward then gear change, mine runs to 8500rpm and flat shifts back to being even. And yeah my car does have a decent spec sheet lol.
Dann

Some thing still doesn't add up there.
A genuine 100rwkw n/a wouldn't get anywhere near a genuine 135rwkw supercharged in a straight line, regardless of how many revs you run to.
You could have the best spec sheet in the world, but your peak is still only 100kw vs 135kw and your n/a would have waay less torque than a s/c car.

Either your car is MASSIVELY lighter, or Patrick's gearchanges are slooow, or as Matty suggested its not a true apples to apples comparison.

i believe the fast acceleration from dann's car might because being a builded engine, the component piston, crankshaft and connecting rod will be lighter, as a result his engine rev a lot faster??
therefore in a drag race the fast revving b6 can match wif a relatively slow revving bp sc??

[NitroDann]

Area under the curve, my curve is peaky as all get out, but 6 speed and 4.3 means I am always there. I have flat shifting so although his shifts are fast mine are WAY faster. (0.2 seconds second to 3rd on a good run).

And its light.
If we are lucky hell come on here and talk about it. It is a fair fight because we have had multiple drag races, from dead and a roll.


Dann

[criss]

may i know how to do flat shifting?

[rascal]

may i know how to do flat shifting?

Don't lift your foot off the throttle when you change up gears. Just stab the clutch and move lever quickly to the next gear in same movement.

If your not using a clutch you can also have electronics which cut the motor for a split second to take the load off the box and allow the gear change to happen.
Though great for quick gear changes, not so nice for gearbox longevity..

[NitroDann]

ECU feature is a spark or fuel cut or a spark retard whenever you push in the clutch at over 70% throttle, this way (in retard mode) you still have full fueling and hence horsepower being produced even while changing gears but the ignition event is so late the explosion happens mostly in the exhaust, meaning that when you lift off the clutch the ignition is advanced again, and power goes like this,

Rather than full power, foot coming off accelerator, foot going on clutch, sliding into gear synchros catching up to gears waiting for the engine to stop producing torque as your foot comes all the way off the accelerator, then everything in reverse.

It goes, full power, stab clutch, gear goes straight instantly in due to engine producing zero torque, unstab clutch, throttle still wide open, instant full power again. Full power 2nd gear to full power 3rd in 2 tenths of a second. proved my logs. Not half a second or more from full power to full power.

Dann