Roll Over Protection discussion

[de Bounce]

Anyway has anyone installed one themselves. How long would it take someone. Is a few hours realistic? Any traps I should be aware of.

There is a thread with a fair bit of info HERE
Plus a link to the installation instructions HERE

4 - 5 hours at a relaxed pace is good.
Only issues I had was getting a glue to hold the captive nut near the top seat belt mounts and finding a way of drilling the holes in the parcel shelf in the NB, NA should have more clearance as you can zip out the rear window.

[snshami]

I wonder if it is because people are pushing them so hard or is it something at the very limit that makes them unstable if not setup properly.

I think that when they're near the limit it just takes a little something extra to throw them over - like a gutter, or a rock, or a bank. These are all incidents more likely on the road than the track. Having said that I was speaking to a guy who had almost rolled at turn 4 at Wakefield. He cut the apex a little tight, clipped that stupid inside ripple strip and it launched up 30 or 40 degrees. The crowd down the bottom all saw his floorpan.

Then there is this dude. No rollbar and no helmet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Rpggyt ... r_embedded

Now that's what I call dynamic drifting....

I cannot wait to try it but now that I have paid for it will wait till my rollbar is in place

[deviant]

I wonder if it is because people are pushing them so hard or is it something at the very limit that makes them unstable if not setup properly.

I think that when they're near the limit it just takes a little something extra to throw them over - like a gutter, or a rock, or a bank. These are all incidents more likely on the road than the track. Having said that I was speaking to a guy who had almost rolled at turn 4 at Wakefield. He cut the apex a little tight, clipped that stupid inside ripple strip and it launched up 30 or 40 degrees. The crowd down the bottom all saw his floorpan.

Then there is this dude. No rollbar and no helmet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Rpggyt ... r_embedded

Now that's what I call dynamic drifting....

I cannot wait to try it but now that I have paid for it will wait till my rollbar is in place

Having looked at what passes for 'safety' at club level motorsport over there I would NEVER look to Japan for advice on it!!

[snshami]

Having looked at what passes for 'safety' at club level motorsport over there I would NEVER look to Japan for advice on it!!

You are quite correct. It reminds me of when I visited a Mazda manufacturing facility in Hiroshima. We were asked to make sure we always wore our safety caps otherwise we could be asked to leave. I thought the word cap was merely a translation error and we would be given a regular hardhat. Imagine my surprise when they handed out a simple baseball cap made of cloth. It made it easier for people to hit their head because of the visor blocking upwards visibility.

[deviant]

I imported a trackday AW11 MR2 from Japan a few years back, the harness was missing when it got here but the mounts were still there. The lap section was using the stock seat belt points which is okay but the mounts for the shoulder belts were mounted on the bulkhead behind the seats but down near the floor so that the shoulder belts would have gone over your shoulders and then imediately gone vertically down; instant spine damage in even a minor bump doing that! Oh and the eye bolts were only mounted through the carpet and its rubber and fibreboard backing!!!! At least they had used a spreader plate to stop the bolt tearing through the wood / carpet

True story!

[orx626]

Well how about that!!!!

As far as Mazda are concerned the steel structure under those plastic covers on the NC is a "Roll Bar"!!!!




Here is their US Patent in all its glory!!! I've got no idea what performance standards it was designed to meet (probably their own). However, they clearly describe its intended function in the event of a roll over!!!

Enjoy!!!

Cheers,
Danny

[NMX516]

Excellent post Danny!

Cue Morlock with the but, but, but, but......

[PaulF]

I wonder if it is because people are pushing them so hard or is it something at the very limit that makes them unstable if not setup properly.

I think that when they're near the limit it just takes a little something extra to throw them over - like a gutter, or a rock, or a bank. These are all incidents more likely on the road than the track. Having said that I was speaking to a guy who had almost rolled at turn 4 at Wakefield. He cut the apex a little tight, clipped that stupid inside ripple strip and it launched up 30 or 40 degrees. The crowd down the bottom all saw his floorpan.

Then there is this dude. No rollbar and no helmet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Rpggyt ... r_embedded

Now that's what I call dynamic drifting....

I cannot wait to try it but now that I have paid for it will wait till my rollbar is in place

It's alright, because:
A. He's wearing a race suit and gloves and
B. He's the drift king!

[Mr Morlock]

always the sceptic. What the US does is not always relevant to other places- this is the land that does not even legislate in all states for seatbelts and they still have not worked out the value of helmets for motorcyclists. I still pose what I think is a valid question and that is if it is an approved and truly useful safety feature then why is not so advertised in Australia as such by Mazda?

For an NC the product is at least part of the vehicle and designed for it. For other MX5's it is designed to fit as best it can ie an afterthought. In view of the 70 odd pages of the new legislation on safety cages and roll bars there is detailed criteria on clearances for drivers and passenger -do the locally made units comply? Presumably when the legislation is enacted then any local manufacturer will either get a tick or have to redesign or withdraw. Those that are in the industry may care to advise us.

[dave2221]

a proper affro will protect you in a rollover.


Just saying

[Guran]

There's a difference between being sceptical and being blatantly obstinate. This is a US patent, but it is based on a couple of Japanese patents (Dec 2003 priority date), and has also been granted in Europe as EP 1547874. Mazda's statement in patents that this device is a rollbar is NOT specific to the USA alone.

[nbse2]

I did not want to start a new thread, however I will be purchasing a roll over bar and am deciding on whether to purchase the BD roll over or the MX5plus single hoop. I am trying to understand the signficance of the torque box of the MX5 plus bar, which the BD does not have. Does this provide a benefit that the BD does. The MX5+ bar I also understand sits a little further back than the BD bar which from the pictures and on reading the forum sits nearer to the drivers head. The + bar is dearer. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Old Dude]

You really need to look at both bars and see how they mount and where they mount, and then decide which one you feel happier with. I looked at both bars and decided on the MX5+ twin hoop after a lot of investigation, Im sure there will be plenty who prefer the BD bar, But I felt the bolt placement was superior on the + bar.
Call both manufacturers and get the specs, both will be happy to talk to you, and then you can make an informed decision.
So unfortunately its back to you.

Cheers
Dale

[Mr nanotech]

I've wondered this for a while now and there seems to be little point making a new thread for this question when we have a perfectly good active one right here

Why do Australian mx5 roll over bars mount on the rear parcel shelf? After seeing many international half cages, 90% of have the diagonal bars passing through the parcel shelf and onto more structural parts of the car. Seems like that would make more sense too as the parcel shelf is very thin and can be quite easily cut through.
I would surmise in a roll over event, the parcel shelf wouldn't be able to handle the load and would crumple. Especially if the car is put into the air and dropped upside down. Now keep in mind I have no engineering background so I have no idea if the parcel shelf would indeed be strong enough. But based on the thickness and so on, I don't why this is the chosen mounting point for us in Aus.
Factor in that most international cages and half cages for Miata's require modification to the parcel shelf so the diagonals can pass through, why is Australia different?

To me, it looks like the Hard dog bars and so forth would be a safer alternative to a BD or Plus bar. I'm not trying to undercut forum sponsors here and I have the utmost respect for our domestic market and our economy; but after some shipping ressearch, the Hard dog hardcore bars seem to be only $800-900 shipped to your door internationally. There are countless photo's of mx5's destroyed with this half cage in place, which would show that they do indeed work... quite well!!!
Which makes me wonder why our domestic manufacturers haven't copied this design. Could it be that CAMS have restrictions on the possible mounting places for our roll bars? I've read into the CAMS specs for half cages a while back but it's been forever since I've glimpsed so I don't recall specifics other than mounting at the seatbelt bolts, having at least one cross bar and two diagonals and that it must be constructed from steel.

And another question. *flame suit on* I know that this has been covered countless times but I'm still yet to see someone with a logical answer. Why are alloy bars considered unsafe? As I understand, the wall thickness of the alloy bars are greatly thickened so it will theoretically be as strong as a steel bar anyway.
As far as I recall, alloy bars have been used in racing for decades anyway.

Would anyone be able to shed some light on this?

[bigdog]

As a BD owner I would buy the + twin hoop next time round - preserves access to the soft top and would be easier to live with, and it would attract less attention from the law. I think both + designs are better thought out than BDs.