Ben Sale's white 1990 NA6

[bensale]

Lee, the car with panel modifications also has no soft top... And also has a cf hardtop fitted so in that case he has made an aprox 17kg weight saving...

Which is why the Classification officer gave you an exemption to run without your soft top until the Motorsport meeting this week which will clarify the ruling on hard tops & soft tops.

I acknowledge and appreciate this exception.

As I understand it, the protests were lodged due to the fact that your 'standard' na6 was significantly quicker 'in a straight line' than all other std NA6s and most of the standard NA8s & NB8's in the club, not because of the impressive lap times you posted. They just drew attention to yourself.

The subsequent investigation highlighted the fact that your car was running with 7 mods (ignoring soft top) when you are only permitted 4, hence the reclassification to modified.You also only specified 2 mods on your entrant statement, which wasn't consistent with what your car actually had.

And i agree! It appears that my ecu, cat, extractors, compression and cams are all standard hey? But I still need to put it on a dyno...

The absence of these items makes the cars straight line speed even more surprising, hence the requirement for a dyno...

Yes, when I filled out the entrants statement in July 2010 the car to my knowledge had two modifications, the springs and shocks... Although at that time it also had the air filter mod, the front lip so actually 4... Subsequently i have played with adding a few mods including, the sway bars and exhaust, the diff which failed and I removed the soft top when it tore... As the protests highlighted, I have exceeded my modification allowance due to the 3 additions resulting in minimal or no performance advantage.

Racal, you as well as anyone would know that straight line speed has as much to do with the exit speed you get off the corner preceding the straight. I was very mindful of my exit out of MG using a line which while not the fastest around the corner gave me additional exit speed. I was then very mindful of scrubbing off any speed through the last two flat corners. I would say my straight line speed advantage (if any) is due to this more than any additional power... Other competitors complained that the gap between them and me grew as i accelerated out of MG... Well of course it bloody well will, a 1 second gap is a lot larger visually and in meters when you're doing 180kph down the straight compared to 60kph at the apex of MG even if the rate of acceleration of the two cars is identical... The only person to follow right behind me down the straight was Bob Debont and my car was no quicker than his... The lap i follow Princey before he spun off at turn two I spent the straight a meter off his bumper but did not gain on him. Sure a na6 should be slower, but there is more to straight line speed as i said above.

I would have been surprised if i had have been excluded completely for blatantly contravening the rules as this is not the case... I agree that within the exacting laws of the club my re classing to modified is correct and I can not argue with that decision. However, perhaps an approach where i was asked to remove the additions of negligent performance gain before the next meeting and providing I passed the dyno test with an acceptable result my results could have stood would have been anouther option. I know this is the approach the Victorian Motorkhana Championship takes (situation dependent I would assume though) offering the option to recify the illegal modifications and if they are not rectified then you will be re classed.

Good to hear about about the rookie class =) Also please note that I do not believe that the club was wrong in it's decision.... It is just the way that the protests came about, the minimal advantage the things I am excluded for provided me and the need to dyno the car at my own expense if I am to continue in the class that annoys me.

[-alex]

To be honest this is pathetic, petty, really poor form and not in the spirit of club events.

The way this has been approached by the people who have an issue with Ben's car is cowardly, you should ask someone if you have a problem with them, it's a club environment obviously you have contact with the people involved, why sour relationships by accusing people without first having a chat.

Also it's really rich coming from the parties it did, it's the tar calling the tyre black. Fair enough the rules should be enforced and I'm not against that, but it needs to be universal.

Filing a protest just because some one is faster than you is unsportsmanlike, learn how to drive so perhaps you won't be shamed next time.

[daffyflyer]

All in all it looks like things have been conducted in a fashion that really isn't what you want in club level motorsport, having to deal with this kind of stuff certainly doesn't make club level Motorsport so attractive, particularly to those just in it for fun.


I can't see any of the mods described really honestly making any meaningful performance difference.... you'd probably get more extra power by just servicing the thing than the airbox holes for example, and did you not say the lip was factory?

[bensale]

Andrew, the lip is an oem factory option... Although it was never actually offered in Australia... Interestingly NB's actually have a similar little lip under the bumper standard from the factory. And I really doubt the holes make much of a difference either, gaffer tape will do the trick =)

[fattima]

Yes, when I filled out the entrants statement in July 2010 the car to my knowledge had two modifications, the springs and shocks... Although at that time it also had the air filter mod, the front lip so actually 4... Subsequently i have played with adding a few mods including, the sway bars and exhaust, the diff which failed and I removed the soft top when it tore... As the protests highlighted, I have exceeded my modification allowance due to the 3 additions resulting in minimal or no performance advantage.

Ben IMHO there is no point is saying the additional mods had minimal or no performance advantage. The fact is they existed and were not on your entrant statement from what I understand by reading this thread. While I can really see that you are upset about this I think you need to take a step back and look at the how the class would function if people can start claiming their extra mods have no performance advantage. In any class of motorsport knowing the rules and how to work within them is a very important part of the game.

As to how the protests were lodged, well we all do things differently. It could be argued that if you alert someone to an illegal mod they could remove it before the inspection (not that I think you would do something like that). To be honest it is not the way I would handle it I would have approached you as I know you are not the type to bullsh!t anyone.

As I said to you in a PM come play in modified and show an old fat bastard how to do it
Look forward to seeing you soon and as always my garage is open if you need to use it to rectify anything on your car.

Bruce

[bensale]

I agree that there is a need to enforce the modifications limit in the class... I have never hidden what I have done to the car. As you've shown in PM if you look through my thread it's all here, it's not like I've been secretly modifying the car as was alleged. I did not fill out a new declaration after July despite adding the additional modifications to bring me up to the class limit (or not as it transpires) as I felt it was still within the class rules.

I have no problem having now been made aware of the illegal additional mods to the car being re classed to modified until they are removed. I just feel that perhaps due to the questionable performance benefits of the modifications and if a dyno test showed the car to have no exceptional power increase over a standard na6 my results should have been allowed to stand from the last 3 events. I sent an email to Rob raising that as a possible action for next time something like this occurs.

I was in fact aware there was the possibility of a protest the night prior to it being lodged. I didn't think it would actually happen and regardless I didn't touch the car and actually pointed out 2 of the modifications I was disqualified for to Rob which i doubt he would have found otherwise.

I would love to come and play in modified. For the time being my income level means that clubman is a good class for me. When I can afford to make a few additions to the car to bring it up to a spec which would allow me to chase the front runner in modified then maybe I'll give it a go. I believe with the right tyres I could give 2nd place a good run at all the events in modified, but not catch Russell... So i'll probably wait a year or so, I would want to add extractors, high flow cat, an ecu, intake and improve the suspension set up as well as a set of semi slicks.

Thanks for the offer, I should be okay but if I decided that I don't want to to the diff on my own I will give you a yell =) It would be good to catch up.

[HIC-45S]

Has been an interesting read to say the least

1- Non standard airbox- a couple of 1" holes in the bottom of the OEM unit.
2- My oem front lip spoiler
3- Non functioning viscous differential (as mentioned above I broke the unit, it leaks oil and open wheels as badly as an open diff. My tyre wear and temperatures and the end of a session prove this. I didn't change it back out as it is a 4hr job.
4- Soft top not fitted to the vehicle (although i have an exemption for this until the end of this week meaning this did not count in my disqualification)

1- While I agree that this is rather petty, if the holes do not provide any substancial increase in performance, why have them at all? Besides, as far as I can remember the MX-5's airbox is located right next to the exhaust shield, perhaps performance gains can be had from plugging them up?
2- That's just strange... is that to say a factory standard JDM MX-5 with a limited compliance plated would be also placed in the modified catagory?
3- I didn't realise that an open diff gave an increase in performance! There goes my idea of getting my OS Giken diff

[bensale]

Glad you've enjoyed it..!

I put the holes in when the car still had a standard exhaust... It was my ghetto spec CAI which gave me a little induction noise... The holes were/are on the cold side of the airbox so at least it wasn't sucking in air right off the exhaust. It perhaps made a small benefit, but I doubt very much that it was even a perceptible one.

Going by the ruling I recieved an otherwise standard JDM or USDM na6/na8 with an oem front lip would have to be put in to the clubman class (4 mods) as it would count as one modification over standard...

Well I'll be taking the diff out of the car in a couple of weeks... You can have it if you'd like, I'm sure it would work well in your Riceline..!

[HIC-45S]

I'm sure it will bolt straight up!

And handle around 160-180 rwkW

[bensale]

Absolutely! Seeing that it handled my 70rwkw (or what ever it ends up being) so well that it failed and started leaking oil I'm sure your 180rwkw will be no problem for it!

[Guran]

Hang on a minute. Does this mean a JDM import NA6 with a viscous LSD is ineligible for Standard NA class?

[bensale]

That would have to be a yes there...

[PaulF]

Oh boy, what a mess. Oh well. Just keep going out there and enjoying yourself mate.

[theMX5judge]

OMG.... The mess is even bigger - the word on the street is that owing to this debacle, other items such as cars in this class having illegal modifications such as no radio cassette player (with air supply cassettes in the glove box), light weight gear knobs made from aluminium in lieu of heavier plastic, use of fuels not available in 1990.... nobody smoking Camel cigarettes like the '90s....removal of wiper blades during competition, that ALL cars in this class will need to be comprehensively scrutinered from top to bottom before the next event

good luck ... "boys"....

[CheyneX5]

People making dud usernames to hide behind? Forums hit a new low in my opinion...