Power windows issue

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narcoticx2
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Power windows issue

Postby narcoticx2 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:05 pm

So I've posted about this before in a thread about timing belts

My power window goes down 2 or so inches and then grinds to a halt. It sounds like the motor just stops getting power. It will go up fine from there.

I had the door card off today based on suggestions and comments about things getting tangled or caught in the door stopping the window moving any further. I felt around for a fair while and didn't find anything catching on the window, or along any of the cables.

Given the motor is working, the power window button works, and I haven't got a clue what else to do - what should I do? Time to go to my auto electrician or mechanic?

Anyone want to come have a look at it ? :lol:
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joe5084
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby joe5084 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:56 pm

I need some more info when the window grinds to a halt ,is it still loaded drawing current or does it just stop these are two different problems if it is still loaded then it is sticking in the rails or something similar, if there's no draw a switch or motor.
This is a place to start at least.

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aviper4u
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby aviper4u » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:47 am

when you removed the door card did you also remove that water proofing plastic layer?

also good point made above about load or no load when stuck is the key.

if motor trying what about if apply pressure to help it go down while button pushed?

i know my windows were a bit sluggish got some silicon spray, the kind people put on garage doors and now much smoother.
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby narcoticx2 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 am

Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it.

It feels/sounds like the motor stops getting power, so it's no longer applying a load to the window. Also, (it's the passenger side door if i didn't mention it) the far side of the window goes down slightly further than the inside, as if the inside stops first.

I didn't take the plastic layer off, however there was a cut/hole in it where it looks like someone might have had this issue before?

Let me know what you guys think/if you need more info.

Thanks again!
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Guran
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby Guran » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:01 pm

I'd suggest you pull apart your window switches in the central console. You'll probably find there is heavy oxidation of the contact surfaces. You can test the resistance with a multimeter if you're really keen. Give the switch contacts a clean up with some wet&dry and it should make a fair difference.

Oh, and I second that tip to use a bit of silicone spray on the rubber channels.

Don't forget to let us know how it goes. 8)
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby aviper4u » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:28 pm

yea if motor stops prolly going to have to "get in there" but as suggested going via switches is much neater an you can maybe connect driver's switch to passenger door to eliminate switch and concentrate on the door itself?
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narcoticx2
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby narcoticx2 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:30 pm

I don't see how the switch could be at fault - it either makes contact or it doesn't, right?

Also, don't think it's a lubrication issue as I can't force the window down - haven't tried very hard though but I imagine it'd be enough force to get past any lack of lubrication.

That said, I suppose it can't hurt to clean the contacts and lubricate the window channels anyway. If that works it's a bonus I guess!

Would taking a video of the issue help?
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby aviper4u » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:35 pm

dont think a video would hurt?

though if a working window is have way down anyway can it be pushed down anyway? i dont think it can.......

or maybe host a dodgy day and help that way :beer:
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby Guran » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:42 pm

narcoticx2 wrote:I don't see how the switch could be at fault - it either makes contact or it doesn't, right?

Oxidation on the contacts creates a resistance. Voltage equals resistance times current. Voltage is constant, so if resistance goes up / current goes down. Hence the window motor gets less current and doesn't have enough grunt to drive the window.
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby lukearama » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:54 pm

OK here's my two bobs worth... I have just replaced both my regulator cables..both doors I mean. Many people say that the cables are the issue... I don't agree.... It seems from my investigation that the grease used in assembly is more a problem... After 20 years it just goes hard.... There is no heat in the door to get it flowing again... If I owned your car and based on the expereince with mine this is what I would do....

Completly diasemble the door taking note of the following

remove the window glass. When it comes out you will see the slides... clean and lubricate these in assembly.

Remove winder motor and cables..

Disassemble the motor and cables as per manufacturer instructions. Lubricate cable and mototrs and reassemble.. Using electrical silicon grease

install window glass with new lubricant.

My preference was a silicon grease used for electricial insulation... It has a low melt point.

Note: control the spread of silicon grease while doing the job... Paint shops hate silicon...

Try that... If you want some good second hand cables I have some spares..

cheers and good luck.
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby Noddycar » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:09 pm

Copy of a post in another forum..... This worked for me and I was experiencing a similar problem to yours (would go part down or not at all). After this, worked a treat. I tried all the other fixes first, such as cleaning the channel, using silicon spray, then lithium grease. This was the only thing that helped:

Cleaning Power Window Switchby Aaron A Trompeter
A dirty power window switch can cause your Miata's windows to hesitate, or refuse, to go up. A new switch costs well over a hundred dollars and is worth it if the alternative is to leave the windows down. But if the money you would spend on a new switch can be used for something better, then try cleaning the old switch before you purchase a new one. You have to take the vehicle apart one way or the other, so why not? First call the dealer to see if they have a switch on hand and check the price. (This is a common, profitable, problem, so they usually do.) If they do, try fixing the one you take out before you spend that money. It's an easy process.
The first thing you will need to do is take out the center console. This will require you to remove the shift knob (loosen the keeper pin on the bottom of the knob) first. There are a few screws you must then remove and the whole center console will pull up. Be careful with the attached wires and take note of how they are fed and fastened through the system.
The power window switch can be unplugged from the harness quite easily. There are then three screws that fasten it to the console. Remove those screws and the switch is free.
Holding the power window switch face down in your palm, you will see a Phillips head screw in the center of all the wires. Remove that screw and the switch will come apart with a little persuasion. Do this over a table or other work surface because there are little parts that can fall out. Set the loose parts to the side.
Turn the switch over and you will see the dirty contact points. Take a small wire brush to them and clean the contact points on the plastic backing. After you complete that, take the four (4) rocker switches and, while holding with a pair of pliers, clean with the wire brush. Don't go too crazy with the scrubbing brush, this is a delicate switch.
Here is how the switch should look after disassembly. Notice the dirty contact pads on the switch and the (4) dirty rocker switches on work surface. All of these need to be cleaned with the wire brush.
When you have finished brushing the buildup from the contact points, reassemble the switch. The rocker switches go in only one way, so you won't mix them up.

Notice the difference on the newly scrubbed switch. The contact pads are shiny and the rocker switches look shiny as well. Reassemble in reverse order. The switch is built intuitively and goes back together with little trouble.
Once you have the switch reassembled, plug it back into the wiring harness and test it with the power turned on in your car. Do not reassemble to whole center console before you test it. It may not work for you, and you may have to run up to the dealer for a new switch.
If it works, put it all back together and enjoy the money you saved. If not, well, lets hope it was the switch in the first place!
Note from Jon Jacobi:I would like to point out that a good can of electronics cleaner such as Puretronics (I got mine at Fry's in Palo Alto, CA) will clean off the entire switch assembly, contacts and rocker elements without the need for abrasives. I just finished the procedure and can vouch for it, however, I can't say if the Puretronic would mar the plastic on the top of the center console though it didn't seem to affect the bottom of the console adversely.
I did the procedure with the switch dismounted and dissembled but some adventurous soul might try it in place. It does seem as if you'd have to do the spraying from the bottom since there doesn't seem to be a direct path to the switch from the front of the rocker buttons.
The four rocker contacts that fall out when you disassemble the switch should be replaced, bulge down, into the each of the notches on contact board. They're not concentric--if they don't fall easily into place, rotate them 180 degrees and they will.
Also, the contact board snaps easily into the upper portion of the switch when correctly oriented. If you feel undo resistance, rotate it 180 degrees--don't force it.

Sorry - pics are missing as I am not sure how to post them here. If you want this with the pics, pm me and I will send it to you as a pdf. Hope this helps.
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Noddycar
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby Noddycar » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:11 pm

1993 MX-5 Limited Edition - my original Noddy Car
2010 Roadster Coupe Sport - the more civilised (but still fun) daily driver

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narcoticx2
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby narcoticx2 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Thanks Noddycar (and Guran), I'll give the switches a go first before I completely dismantle the door! I think I understand why it could be an issue now.
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Guran
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby Guran » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:18 pm

No worries. 8) I hope you can sort out your issue, and having a look at the condition of switches is a very quick and easy job. Please let us all know what you find.
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WP 1:11.89 | SMP-S 1:05.90 GP 1:54.93 N 1:18.09 L 2:22.49 | PW 1:02.52
PI 2:00.55 | W-S 1:12.44 W-L 1:43.36 | SR 1:33.25

lukearama
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Re: Power windows issue

Postby lukearama » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:02 pm

in the interest of a little more speed I did the switch cleaning exercise. I had the centre consul removed to get the tombstone out so it was half done.

I have, as recently posted, done both regulators however the windows did not operate at the same speed... hoping to gain the extra 10 10th I needed to make them identical I disasembeld and cleaned the contacts of my 20 year old switch....

guess what??? no change....

My switch showed signs of contact wear due to arcing but other then that they were fine. Cleaning the carbon deposits did nothing to the overall performance.... This said if however a sticky beverage coffee or Cola had been spilt in the switch this result may have varied...

The way you descirbe the issue is identical to the problems I had in bath my doors. Not quite as bad. Sorry to say but door disasembly here you come...
Apart from Mazda............ trust nothing else...


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