Roll Over Protection discussion

[Old Dude]

I still think we are all letting ourselves become more and more scared and cocooned. I maintain that if you drive sensibly and do not take risks then the chances of rolling an MX-5 violently enough to crush your A pillar are very very small.

The chances of a roll over may be small, but if it does happen and you dont have a roll bar your toast, some times you can be doing nothing wrong, as in Big dogs case and his roll bar saved his life, he was stopped for gods sake. When I was in a rolled car we were doing 50kmin a suburban rd and we were T boned by a guy who didn't stop at a stop sign. Benny has also been in a roll over. It happens no matter how safe a car you are in, and people still die in those vehicles. Unfortunately people don't realise how easily it can happen when the circumstances are right, until you have been in one.

My sisters MX 5 was written of recently when she was clipped by truck on a freeway doing 100k's and she ended up down an embankment. Luckily she didn't roll but the circumstances were certainly not in her favour, even though she was driving responsibly.

You think the A pillars are that strong? watch the video, and its not like its going quick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGHzyNJ3-kI

Look at the two photo's below, I know which car I would prefer to be in

gomiata_2047_62125307.jpg

93black_crash2.jpg

Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions on their safety and there associated risks in making those decisions. But I for one would not put my kids in a convertible without one.

Cheers
Dale

[Mr Morlock]

roll overs - far higher risk in many other cars- refer MUARC data for safety of the MX5. The number of fatalities from roll overs in US for 4wds was staggering and it was not common knowledge. The U tube vid's really do not tell you much - there is no report on expected injuries- but I agree it does not look good. Greater safety is afforded by air bags, traction control, improved seat design and anchorage, crumple zones etc etc- not existing on 20 year old cars.

[Mr nanotech]

I think the point a lot of people are getting at is that nomatter how unlikely (debatable apparently) a roll over accident may be; Having a roll bar will prevent the door line and boot sitting flush with the road and stopping you from grinding what's above your shoulders into a thick red paste.

[Mr Morlock]

my impression is that the info provided is of value to MX5 owners from both sides of the view. I certainly cannot claim to be right- there is not enough info to be sure at least in my view. Dales comment about his sisters crash ( I do recall reading about this) whilst it did not involve a roll over did underline that the car has inherent safety features. One of my family also had a car which I learned had a poor crash worthiness rating and I was glad to see it changed to a safer car.

[Old Dude]

Thats what I like about the MX5 cartalk forum Mr M,
Every contributor's view is important, whether it is agreed with or not. After reading all the post then the reader can make an informed decision to do what suits that individual.

Cheers
Dale

[greenMachine]

That youtube vid is pretty scary - the windsceen pillar appeared to collapse with just the dead weight of the car!

There is also a pic around (on this forum or its predecessor) of an SP that rolled up in NE NSW somewhere(I think).

Well the GM has a BD bar, and unless someone comes up with something better, it is staying.

[Mr nanotech]

I know this isn't appropriate but this scares me to death. This is what I think about everytime I visualise an accident in my car.

[de Bounce]

Thanks for the graphic picture Nanotech and in my colour too
At least I have a MX5 Plus bar in mine.

[snshami]

That youtube vid is pretty scary - the windsceen pillar appeared to collapse with just the dead weight of the car!

There is also a pic around (on this forum or its predecessor) of an SP that rolled up in NE NSW somewhere(I think).

Well the GM has a BD bar, and unless someone comes up with something better, it is staying.

In this video they are literally throwing the car forward and downwards to intiate a roll with significant force. It still does not entirely crush the A pillar. There is still survivable space under the car.

The issue I have with roll bars is that they need to be very high and very beefy and very ugly to really protect. If they are not at least at the height of the top of the A pillars then they will not do anything. Also without a racing harness they will not do anything at any height. Normal seatbelts without pretensioners will not hold you in your seat.

So is the answer to fit big ugly structures with sufficient padding and a racing harness plus wear a helmet. That takes most of the pleasure of a convertible away. Why not just buy an MR2 or that pink 280ZX someone has put on ebay

What everyone also forgets is that the MX-5 A pillars are structurally far stronger than the equivalent sedan so they would resist crushing much better than say an RX7 or Skyline. Yet you will not find people in those forums using roll over bars for the road.

When you are in a rollover situation how much better is to to have collapsed sheetmetal around you than open road surface.

My answer will always be to drive defensively and to be alert.

[snshami]

I know this isn't appropriate but this scares me to death. This is what I think about everytime I visualise an accident in my car.

Is this real or faked. If it is real what is the background to this accident. How did the accident happen. What happened to the driver?

Why is the blood dripping uphill. Why are there no skid marks or other debris on the road?

[snshami]

I think the point a lot of people are getting at is that nomatter how unlikely (debatable apparently) a roll over accident may be; Having a roll bar will prevent the door line and boot sitting flush with the road and stopping you from grinding what's above your shoulders into a thick red paste.

I know someone who rolled their Triumph Herald convertible (zero A pillar strength). Their car overturned and then slid for some time upside down. That person basically held on to whatever he could to keep himself off the road. He had grazes and scratches put did not grind his head off. If he had there would be signs today

[Old Dude]

From the look of the accident it was an MX 5 get together that went terribly wrong, country road just after a corner, so the speed couldn't have been too high. It appears he clipped the rock face on the left of the picture. But as you see the A pillar did nothing!
Where a roll bar of any height would have given them some space.

[snshami]

From the look of the accident it was an MX 5 get together that went terribly wrong, country road just after a corner, so the speed couldn't have been too high. It appears he clipped the rock face on the left of the picture. But as you see the A pillar did nothing!
Where a roll bar of any height would have given them some space.

That does not explain the blood flow but one can also not tell what circumstances led to this accident.

I sincerely believe that most accidents are anyting but. In fact the term accident is a misnomer as it implies that the participants or the victims had no involvement in making it happen. An accident is if a tree falls on you. If someone hits an embankment and rolls it is not an accident but instead a crash with possibly tragic consequences.

[Old Dude]

The blood is flowing downhill, its the angle the photo is taken that makes it appear this is uphill.

An accident is a specific, unpredictable, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, with no apparent and deliberate cause but with marked effects. It implies a generally negative outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence

Dictionary meaning of Accident, basicaaly recognise the risk and drive accordingly, doesn't always happen, and at the end of the day some one is injured or worse.

Cheers
Dale

[greenMachine]

In this video they are literally throwing the car forward and downwards to intiate a roll with significant force. It still does not entirely crush the A pillar. There is still survivable space under the car. Not enough for me, thank you!
The issue I have with roll bars is that they need to be very high and very beefy and very ugly to really protect. If they are not at least at the height of the top of the A pillars then they will not do anything. I call BS on this statement Also without a racing harness they will not do anything at any height. Normal seatbelts without pretensioners will not hold you in your seat.

So is the answer to fit big ugly structures with sufficient padding and a racing harness plus wear a helmet. That takes most of the pleasure of a convertible away. Why not just buy an MR2 or that pink 280ZX someone has put on ebay

What everyone also forgets is that the MX-5 A pillars are structurally far stronger than the equivalent sedan so they would resist crushing much better than say an RX7 or Skyline. Did you watch that video? Yet you will not find people in those forums using roll over bars for the road.

When you are in a rollover situation how much better is to to have collapsed sheetmetal around you than open road surface.

My answer will always be to drive defensively and to be alert. Good luck

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see ...

Ninety nine percent of us are never going to roll our MX5s, or be rolled by someone else. So the odds are good that NOT having a ROPS of some form will save you money, keep your car looking factory, and you will keep smiling. Even if you are in the 1% (or whatever the figure might be) that does roll, that is no guarantee that you will die or be horribly injured.

If you like those odds, and the risk/reward equation that goes with them, good for you. I don't.