Going to de-power my steering rack...What grease?

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:40 pm

I am about to de-power the steering rack in my NA8. I have read of people saying to pack grease in to the steering rack but I have a couple of questions.

I am not just looping the lines, I have the various bolts needed to plug up the holes left once all the pipes and fitting are stripped off. If I put grease in the rack is the rack going to be trying to force the grease through the valves / seals? I assume that with the lines removed the grease is pretty much just going to be sitting there.

How much grease and what kind? I have a tub of the regular black stuff in the shed.

pcmx5 · Postby **pcmx5** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:59 pm

Have you dríven an NA8 non power assisted with a PS rack as i assume yours will be?

The PS rack is not the same as the NA6 non PS rack having a quicker ratio so your steering may be very heavy.Does anyone know if the NA8 Clubman ratio was the same as an NA8 with PS?

Sorry to highjack this a bit as i suppose you have been through this in reaching your decision.Can't help re the grease.

Peter.

PAU61L · Postby **PAU61L** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:24 pm

Hello, why don't you try to get/buy a non ps rack. I did this because the power steering was leaking and charlie brown suggested replacing it with a manual steer. Having had a look at the work required to depower, it is easier to just replace.
It is easier to drive on the road than I thought and Di (my wife) is happy with it on the road and the track. Paul.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:32 pm

Never dríven a 'de-powered' steering rack but I am basically aiming to keep the quicker steering ratio but gain the feel of a manual rack. Heavy steering does not bother me..in fact I find heavy steering desirable and detest the over-assistance of the MX5 rack.

I thought about sourcing a normal manual rack but as above I want to keep the quicker ratio of the powered rack.

I am not doing the full monty de-power as per the instructions on the Flyin Miata website, my research shows that those instructions actually do not match what you see when you strip down a 1997 rack and everyone gets stuck! I have also read that doing the strip down and rebuild gives you the 100% effect but just draining the fluid and plugging the holes as I plan to still gives you 90% of the desired effect.

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:42 pm

There's a metal seal in the middle of the rack that needs to be removed (it's what separates the two sides for the hydraulic assistance to be applied). Otherwise that seal will limit the amount of grease you can put in because you will be displacing it constantly. If you just want it depowered with the least amount of effort you need to loop the lines and leave P/S fluid in it.

Personally I just used some Penrite wheel bearing grease when I depowered mine, it is very heavy with the P/S rack but still manageable.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:33 pm

Cheers Hellmun, I think I will go down that route then.

How much PS fluid should be left in it?

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:36 pm

I would only want to make sure there is no pressure so I'd fill it, put a drain to it and jack the front of the car up. Then just turn the wheel lock to lock a few times so any overflow is removed.

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:34 am

pcmx5 wrote:The PS rack is not the same as the NA6 non PS rack having a quicker ratio so your steering may be very heavy. Does anyone know if the NA8 Clubman ratio was the same as an NA8 with PS?

Pete, my understanding was the Clubman & other NA8s without PS had a different steering ratio to the factory PS NA8.

JBT · Postby **JBT** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:53 am

The Clubman and other non-powered racks were a lower ratio (more turns lock to lock) than the powered racks.

pcmx5 · Postby **pcmx5** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:46 am

93_Clubman wrote:
pcmx5 wrote:The PS rack is not the same as the NA6 non PS rack having a quicker ratio so your steering may be very heavy. Does anyone know if the NA8 Clubman ratio was the same as an NA8 with PS?

Pete, my understanding was the Clubman & other NA8s without PS had a different steering ratio to the factory PS NA8.

Thanks I knew they were in NA6's and assumed that it would also be the case for Clubmans.I guess that shows that Mazda thought the PS ratio was too heavy unassisted.

Will be really interested to see how Deviant's turns out as he has obviously chosen that route deliberately and I guess if it does turn out to be too heavy he hasn't lost anything but a bit of effort and can source a another rack if he needs to.Keep us informed please!

Peter.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:41 am

I reckon it is a crazy idea- the steering on MX5's are noted for their brilliance. And the systems as already pointed out are not the same. It probably also is not technically legal ie change of standard set up ADR;s etc. Most potential future buyers would not entertain a non ps system. Those driving older sports cars in demanding circumstances ie time behind the wheel on twisty roads show the stress at coffee break. Its not about the grease its more about the spinach.
PS PS - old Toyota L/c's like FJ55- no ps- just brutes in the bush- hit a rock etc massive kick back but FJ60's were far better- far less broken hands. Agree may be irrelevant.

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:49 pm

Mazda designed the car so anyone can drive it. I modify the car to suit my own requirements. I love my de-powered rack and have never looked back. The massive increase in feedback you get especially in low grip situations is amazing for the racetrack.

bretauto · Postby **bretauto** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:40 pm

I have only recently depowered my rack, and for the conditions I use it most of the time (track days), its great . Not overly heavy ,even with 15x9's, yes allot more feel, I also drove for a long time with P/S, and I'm no faster with out it , but I like the way it feels,
I went the full depower route, removed the piston and directional valve, welded up the torson bar, this setup only requires greasing the bushes , gear section and seals.
If you just want to try a depower rack or reversable option, disconnect the hoses, drain the rack and join them together (remember to take the p/s belt off, if your just tring it and have not removed the pump. I have seen this mistake, very messy!) , the little bit of oil left in there is enough to lubrocate the bushes and seals for a while. If you fill this ram section full of fluid or grease, it will only make the steering heavy, as you will be pumping fluid backwards and forwards as you turn the wheel. The gear section of the rack does not run in the oil , it is greased (it will still have whats left of the factory grease in there), if you like you can pull back the drivers side rack boot, turn the wheel to full left lock, you will see the gear section, apply some grease, pretty much any type grease will do the job. this will be alittle heavier then a full depower, as you have the seal drag and are pumping air between the piston sides through a restriction (directional valve). I have not tried it this way but don't believe the difference will be that great.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:36 pm

Hellmun wrote:Mazda designed the car so anyone can drive it. I modify the car to suit my own requirements. I love my de-powered rack and have never looked back. The massive increase in feedback you get especially in low grip situations is amazing for the racetrack.

This. The car is barely dríven on the road anyway so I modify my car to suit where I enjoy driving it...on the track. I will put up with 10% discomfort to be able to drive like a loon for the other 90% on track.

bretauto wrote:I have only recently depowered my rack, and for the conditions I use it most of the time (track days), its great . Not overly heavy ,even with 15x9's, yes allot more feel, I also drove for a long time with P/S, and I'm no faster with out it , but I like the way it feels,
I went the full depower route, removed the piston and directional valve, welded up the torson bar, this setup only requires greasing the bushes , gear section and seals.
If you just want to try a depower rack or reversable option, disconnect the hoses, drain the rack and join them together (remember to take the p/s belt off, if your just tring it and have not removed the pump. I have seen this mistake, very messy!) , the little bit of oil left in there is enough to lubrocate the bushes and seals for a while. If you fill this ram section full of fluid or grease, it will only make the steering heavy, as you will be pumping fluid backwards and forwards as you turn the wheel. The gear section of the rack does not run in the oil , it is greased (it will still have whats left of the factory grease in there), if you like you can pull back the drivers side rack boot, turn the wheel to full left lock, you will see the gear section, apply some grease, pretty much any type grease will do the job. this will be alittle heavier then a full depower, as you have the seal drag and are pumping air between the piston sides through a restriction (directional valve). I have not tried it this way but don't believe the difference will be that great.

Thanks bretauto...much appreciated :beer:

pepejesus · Postby **pepejesus** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:24 pm

deviant, you'll have to give me a drive when you're done, I've always wanted to try out a depowered rack.

I've got the manual rack in mine but the steering ratio is far too slow, especially when you're doing autotest stuff.

I'd love the quick ratio of the PS rack but don't want the rubbish and unecessary PS the MX5 came with.