Almost lost it in the wet Turanza ER592

[snshami]

Hi, today I did a run in wet weather that took me through some of Melbourne's northern and eastern suburbs and out to Healesville and back via Old Myers Creek Rd then through Kinglake. I was going to join the MX-5 Club run that ended up getting cancelled due to inclement weather.

It was the first time I had really dríven the car in wet or dry on anything but a straightish road. I mean there have been roundabouts and freeway on ramps but since I had bought the car in late December I have not had the opportunity. Blame the weather and runs being cancelled ...

Anyway back to the story. I was taking this sharpish left hand turn from Greensborough Bypass to Lower Plenty Rd when the rear end stepped out. It was 7.15 a.m. and a light drizzle on road. I caught the car with an instinctive flick of the wrist.

At that moment I had a few emotions going through me. Firstly relief that I had caught it. Secondly surprise at how easy it seemed. Third was and AHA moment as I realised what everyone meant when they said the MX-5 handles exquisitely. The fourth emotion was one of how shitty the grip was.

Anyway after that I became extra cautious. What I did realise was that the tyres were spinning a bit every time I took off from rest unless I took care not to. It was raining or drizzling throughout.

A few of the MX-5 Club members ended up in Healesville for a consolatory cup of coffee.

On the way back I drove on Old Myers Creek Rd and did a very cautious max. of 70kph. There were no grip issues at that speed. Then closer to Kinglake after I had crossed Melba Hwy the car did another bit of a wiggle when I accelerated through a a fast left hander that had coarse bitumen laid over it.

My tyres are one year old Bridgestone Turanza ER592 on the standard 14" rims with at least 85% grip on them and running 31psi (cold) with stock standard suspension in very good condition. Alignment unkown although it tracks and brakes straight and seems neutral on road.

A few things spring to mind. Firstly I am used to driving new cars with stability control. I have gotten a bit lazy about reading the road and about modulating my throttle.

Is this what I can expect from these tyres in the wet. Could they have some sort of film over them that I need to do a bit of a burnout to get rid of (I am not a hoon and do not condone doing burnouts on public roads or near other people's houses).

Do I just need new tyres. I'd prefer to get some more life out of the tyres I have.

Can I buy any decent tyre in a 14" size. Do RE001 come in this size.

[93_Clubman]

My tyres are one year old Bridgestone Turanza ER592

While that might be when the tyres were purchased, the tyres may have been manufactured well before that, as the Bridgestone Turanza ER592 has been around for a while according to this: http://www.bridgestone.com.au/media/articles/er592.aspx

Tyre rubber goes hard with time, non-optimal storage, & use, so worth checking the manufacture date code if you can find it on the side wall.

[pcmx5]

Given the age of your car it is also possible that the stock standard suspension is not in"excellent" condition and you could have a few factors contributing to the issue.

Mx's with stuffed suspension still feel good compared to some other cars.Wet weather acts like a magnifying force for issues with tyres and dampers and what is ok in the dry becomes p... poor in the wet.

Peter.

[snshami]

My tyres are one year old Bridgestone Turanza ER592

While that might be when the tyres were purchased, the tyres may have been manufactured well before that, as the Bridgestone Turanza ER592 has been around for a while according to this: http://www.bridgestone.com.au/media/articles/er592.aspx

Tyre rubber goes hard with time, non-optimal storage, & use, so worth checking the manufacture date code if you can find it on the side wall.

The date stamp says 14th week of 2008.

[de Bounce]

I'm thinking your issues might be that the Bridgestone Turanza ER592 is a touring tyre.
The sales pitch from 2007 indicates the target market:

Delivering market-leading performance and safety at an attractive price

and

suited to a wide variety of cars, from small vehicles such as Hyundai Excel and Toyota Corolla right up to Ford Fairlane and Holden Statesman.

They may work fine for a daily drive, but not up to the task on a light weight sports car.
Problem is the ER592's will probably last forever or your MX5 will end up on the back of a tow truck.

Personally, give them the flick and get something in the high or ultra high performance end of the tyre spectrum.
Also get a full four wheel alignment so you have a known base to work from.
Your MX5 and your under garments will appreciate the improvement

[Guran]

Here's a good example of how modern cars with ABS, ESC, etc can create drivers who rely on those systems to keep them out of trouble. Stepping back into an old car that doesn't have those features requires a substantial mindshift, especially when the road conditions shift towards low grip levels. You really do need to drive with a heightened focus and exercise greater skill. I'd highly recommend you get yourself along to a driver training day at your nearest skidpan so that you can work on your braking, oversteer, and understeer control techniques. A good quality wheel alignment is also advisable if you haven't already had it done (check this forum for recommended specs).

[snshami]

The car has been regularly serviced at the same Mazda dealer since new. I am pretty certain that the suspension is not bad. I cannot say the same about the alignment. It appears some new tyres are in order. What is the best decent tyre in a size 14. Can one buy RE001s. Anyone know how much these cost?

[snshami]

Here's a good example of how modern cars with ABS, ESC, etc can create drivers who rely on those systems to keep them out of trouble. Stepping back into an old car that doesn't have those features requires a substantial mindshift, especially when the road conditions shift towards low grip levels. You really do need to drive with a heightened focus and exercise greater skill. I'd highly recommend you get yourself along to a driver training day at your nearest skidpan so that you can work on your braking, oversteer, and understeer control techniques. A good quality wheel alignment is also advisable if you haven't already had it done (check this forum for recommended specs).

Guran, I totally agree with your first comment. I have so far been on 5 high performance driving courses. Something must have stuck because I did the right thing and brought the car under control without much drama.

What I need some track time for is to explore the characteristics of the car a bit better. I think I'll do this after changing the tyres and wheel alignment.

I have a feeling there are two other key reasons why I think it caught me out a bit. The first reason I can think of is that its responses seem instantaneous, while with the other cars I am used to the responses seem to have a slight bit of lag, even on manuals. So I am in a different point on any given bend in the road when the power is applied to the tyres. Because I am expecting to be in the later part of the bend and the power comes on earlier I don't get the response I expected.

The second reason I can think of is that it has very little body roll. The body roll in my everyday cars sends me an important message about the angle of the turn. I do not get this same message in the same way in the MX-5. In an MX-5 it is more of a linear sideways g force. I am calibrated to being more responsive to roll than lateral g force. Hopefully practice will help here.

[Guran]

RE001s are readily available in 185/60R14 and cost around $100-$120 each, depending on how much you shop around and what bonus offers are available (Bridgestone are currently giving away a $50 fuel card when you buy a set of 4 tyres). This size is now supplied from Taiwan (and possibly Thailand?). Prior to the closure of Bridgestone tyre manufacturing in Australia about a year ago, they were made in Australia. I'm currently on my third set of RE001s and reckon they have good performance for the price. I've yet to try the Taiwanese version, but also have the Japanese RE001s on our family car (they're performing much the same).

Keep in mind that if you go for a grippier tyre, such as the RE001s, you will probably have shorter tyre life because they wear faster. Also, the RE001s are only rated "A" traction in wet braking, whereas some others might get a better "AA" rating.

[93_Clubman]

My tyres are one year old Bridgestone Turanza ER592

While that might be when the tyres were purchased, the tyres may have been manufactured well before that, as the Bridgestone Turanza ER592 has been around for a while according to this: http://www.bridgestone.com.au/media/articles/er592.aspx

Tyre rubber goes hard with time, non-optimal storage, & use, so worth checking the manufacture date code if you can find it on the side wall.

The date stamp says 14th week of 2008.

So 3 years old - storage, use, weathering are considerations, but more likely as De B says average tyres at best - even though the NB8B came with Turanzas from the factory, they may not have been ER592. Of course, another consideration is oil & water, as there are lots of leaky motors out there dropping oil, especially when traffic has been previously banked up.

[snshami]

Anyone know of someone selling a good set of 14" RE001s

[Entice]

I have a set of re001's on my NA. 185/60.

Also an aggressive wheel alignment.

It's a fun only car, so I am prepared to change the tyres out every 3-4 yrs, regardless of km's.

Though the tyres done feel as grippy as the re050 on my GTI, the 050 are not available in 14's. Hell, not much is in the size we need. Hence I was considering looking for 15's and 16's.. but that would detract from the originality...

so, the 001's are goos, well, they are heaps better than what was on there prior (C Drive and I tried HTR200), but are sensational value at under 100 bucks a corner.

[project.r.racing]

All I can say to this thread is:-

If you want performance from your tyres, then actually buy performance tyres.

[zombie]

and.. tyres are the most important safety feature on your car, as they are the only thing holding you to the road.

Therefore I suggest to always buy the grippiest tyres you can afford.

[Mr Morlock]

having the car step out on a wet road highlights the vagaries of wet roads. Some road surfaces are very nasty- worn , soaked in diesel etc. A patch of newish road outside of Tooradin ( Princes) was torn up because of fatal accidents- you would not have picked it visually.