Wheel Alignment Figures

[ForceMajeure]

I know there is plenty of threads on this but i had an alignment done today after recently getting new shocks and springs and asked for a standard Mx5 NB spec alignment as noone specializes in Mx5's around here otherwise id go to spinning wheel.

Im not at all happy with what has been done, seems i got the apprentice guy on my car, this is the print out, feel free to give your thoughts on where this is horribly wrong, The camber looks all wrong to me.

Front

Camber
Left -1.00
Right -1.30

Cross Camber +0.30

Castor
Left +6.03
Right +5.16

Individual Toe
Left +0.5mm
Right +0.5mm

Total Toe +1.0

Rear

Camber
Left -0.11
Right -1.28

Individual Toe
Left -0.1mm
Right +0.2mm

Total Toe +0.1mm

[93_Clubman]

This is the original wheel alignment thread:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=15398

[ForceMajeure]

Cheers, i didnt find that one through search initially. One thing you wont find is more negative front camber than rear no matter what site you read, ive read a few now.

I have no idea why mine is so far out between left and right sides also.

Ive rung these guys up and am taking it back tommorrow morning, so i will be armed with some figures this time.

The vibe im getting is you want maximum castor, a little more negative camber on the back than the front, same at worst, and some toe in all round.

[Guran]

Problem is that the specification range for MX-5s is quite broad, and the alignment guys might be inclined to leave it if it's within the range. You end up with weird mismatches from side-to-side, or end-to-end. Consequently, you should really have an idea of what you want before you get the alignment, and ask them to aim for that. I'd expect you will get a better set-up when you go back.

You're on the right track with the alignment trends you've flagged. My set-up is as aggressive as possible with the stock suspension since my main use is on the track. That equates to maximum castor, maximum negative camber (around -1.1 to -1.5 deg front and around -2 deg rear can be achieved stock), and zero toe front & rear. I like this setup for the street too, and don't have any problems with instability. However, a milder street setup would be to add 1mm of toe-in front & rear, and less camber on the rear. The right-left balance should be equal too ... after allowing for the weight of a driver in the seat.

[rossint]

Here's my last alignment done August last year after I put my coilovers in. I'm really happy with this set up but it is to be noted that my car is set up for track work, specifically for my local track. The printout also has the specifications for a standard alignment on it which I've included. It was done by Tyrepower Blackwood in Adelaide.

Front:
Caster- Spec 3.45 to 5.15
L 4.52deg
R 4.53deg
Camber- Spec -0.21 to 1.09
L -1.43deg
R -1.51deg
Toe- Spec 0 to 3.7
L 0.0mm
R -0.1mm

Rear:
Camber- Spec -1.13 to -0.13
L -2.30deg
R -2.28deg
Toe- Spec 0 to 3.7
L 1.7mm
R 1.4mm

[ForceMajeure]

Problem is that the specification range for MX-5s is quite broad, and the alignment guys might be inclined to leave it if it's within the range. You end up with weird mismatches from side-to-side, or end-to-end. Consequently, you should really have an idea of what you want before you get the alignment, and ask them to aim for that. I'd expect you will get a better set-up when you go back.

You are spot on, because i asked for a "standard NB" setup the poor guy was left with only the Mazda "Guidelines" to go by, and then all he really had to go off was my current setup, which was WAY WAY out given my suspension had just been done and lowered about 30mm. Of course not having the data off the current setup until after he had finished i couldn't offer any advice to him either.

What the crap man! I'd be seriously pissed off if i took my car into a shop and they got the camber that different between sides. It should be the same all sides.

My current preference for my cars suspension is (SE with FM springs):
Front: -1.3 camber, 5 caster, 0 toe
Rear: -1 camber, 1mm toe in

The shop i get mine done at sees a lot of trailered in track cars. They always get the numbers within 0.05 of what i give them, if they can't hit the numbers i give them they call me.

No doubt he should of made a better effort than just diddling around with the original bad setup i came in with, i think he was stumped as what to do IMHO, he was only a green apprentice, not the Donald Trump type obviously.

Anyway im going back tomorrow armed with information, they will be MX5 alignment experts when all is said and done.

In hindsght i should of done my research before embarking on this fiasco.

[rossint]

As long as they fix it for free which it sounds like they're going to thats the main thing but I don't think it's too much to ask that a place that does alignments can find the standard figures for any mass produced car and figure a workable setting with in the range.

[project.r.racing]

Looks to me like it has been aligned for a FWD car. (Excluding the mixed camber).

[ForceMajeure]

Looks to me like it has been aligned for a FWD car. (Excluding the mixed camber).

That did cross my mind, and i fear its true.

He was not really a "car guy".

[jerrah]

The shop i get mine done at

Which shop is that?

[mazdatenfive]

Got my NA four wheel alignment done at Ross Forbes, Berkeley Vale NSW.
I have found these settings are great for my car, wheel, tyre & suspension combination and cost $60.

Rear Axle
Camber Left -0.35' Right -0.26'
Cross Camber -0.08'
Individual Toe Left +0.6mm Right +0.5mm
Setback +4.6mm

Front Axle
Castor Left +4.58' Right +4.47'
Camber Left -0.21' Right -0.21'
Cross Camber +0.00'
Individual Toe Left +0.7mm Right +0.7mm
Setback -5.1mm

[Charlie Brown]

What the crap man! I'd be seriously pissed off if i took my car into a shop and they got the camber that different between sides. It should be the same all sides.

Only provided that either you are sitting in the car when the alignment is done or that you have ballasted the drivers seat to match your weight.

If you’re not allowed to sit in the seat when the alignment is done or you haven't added ballast, the aligner must make allowance in the camber figures to bring the numbers back to even when you get in. With my weight that means 0.5 degrees more negative camber on the driver’s side.

[ForceMajeure]

Thanks for all the help and info, they re-did the job today and its fantastic IMO, we ended up with a combination of figures taken from this thread, the other alignment thread, my old alignment figures (which i found) and what he got right Yesterday (albeit not much!)

The guy has only been in the job 1 month he tells me, fresh apprentice, so with the bosses oversight we ended up with this which is a mid range between street and track i would think.

Front

Camber
Left -1.01
Right -1.08

Castor
Left +6.14
Right +6.14

Individual Toe
Left +0.5mm
Right +0.5mm

Setback -4.6

Rear

Camber
Left -1.31
Right -1.34

Individual Toe
Left +2.2mm
Right +2.0mm

[ForceMajeure]

Only provided that either you are sitting in the car when the alignment is done or that you have ballasted the drivers seat to match your weight.

If you’re not allowed to sit in the seat when the alignment is done or you haven't added ballast, the aligner must make allowance in the camber figures to bring the numbers back to even when you get in. With my weight that means 0.5 degrees more negative camber on the driver’s side.

Yep for sure. I've been asked if i want to sit in the car when they do the allignment, but i couldn't be stuffed hanging round or coming down when they do it. Plus i don't think my crappy driving style will benifit from a correctly weighted allignment (maybe when i get better).


One thing i've always found strange with the mx-5 community is people seem to prefer more negative camber in the rear than the front, which seems to go against every other rwd allignment. Spec miata and a lot of track guys in the usa run the standard more negative on the front. I've tried two different more negative camber on the rear setups with my car for shits and giggles and found it to be horrible.

I guess it depends on how high your car sits (front and back) and how flat (with sway bars) as to what negative camber may be best for your particular car, the trend (i see) is to lower your car to the max and run big negative camber on the rear, but with sway bars keeping your car flatter im told less negative camber should be used which is why i didn't go overboard, i was thinking of going for the same camber front and back as per some in this thread but in the end i compromised a bit to make the guys job a bit easier, although in hindsight he could have got any figure i threw at him given the boss was helping.

As this outfit is pretty keyed up with MX5 info i can now go back anytime with confidence and dial in another figure, which i will probaby try when i get new tyres which isnt far off. The figures i came up with in the end was my own, but it feels pretty good IMHO.

[Charlie Brown]

The amount of camber really depends on if your car is tracked or street dríven (and how much on each), what tyres you are running and how you like you car to handle. I do know that street tyres require more negative camber to maintain optimal contact patch around the track than rspecs. Down side of aggressive negative camber on the street is that it wears your tyres quickly.

I think you have that the wrong way around. R-spec tyres require more negative camber than street tyres. Depending on the R-spec tyre brand the ideal camber figure generally falls within the range of -3 to -4 degrees. Street tyres tend to be below -2 degrees for spirited driving.

The reason that NA’s & NB’s run half a degree more negative camber on the rear is due to the different front and rear camber curves that occur as the wheel travels up.
The lower the car goes the more negative camber you need. Just make sure if lowering your NA/NB that the front lower wishbone doesn’t go past the horizontal otherwise bump steer will occur. Have a read through Fat Cat Motorsports web pages.

The NC is a different kettle of fish as it has a completely different rear suspension setup. You can and I have run more negative camber on the front than the back.
I’m currently running around 2.5 degrees negative both ends due to the R-specs I use on track days. After 30,000 kilometres the inside wear on my road tyres was only about 1mm more than the outside using this figure. I’m sure it would have been more in a NA/NB because of the difference in suspension.