NC Suspension

[NC2005]

Recently bought a 2005 NC. Having seem others that have obviously been lowered and they look much better and no doubt perform better. What suspension mods. are suggested to lower by say 25mm, reduce body roll, without becoming to hard a ride?
That is without costing a fortune. Am in WA.

[Charlie Brown]

Lowering without costing a fortune…..

Springs are the first step but you can’t get a 25mm drop all round from any manufacturer. Cost $300 – $400 plus fitting.

Eibach Sports 30mm F and 25mm R (there’s two kits so make sure it’s not the set that drops 45mm)

MazdaSpeed, Kings, H & R 35mm F & R

Racing Beat 12mm F & R

Next and the biggest improvement for NC handling is sway bars. Make sure they’re adjustable.
Whiteline, Cobalt, MazdaSpeed, H & R, etc., etc. Cost $400 - $500 plus fitting.

If you have a 2005 like me, you may start to consider that it won’t be long before you need new shocks.
Check your current ones for oil leaks. Mine came off at 90,000 and were still working fine but some people need to get new shocks around the 80k mark. Generally shocks are well and truly gone by 120k. Again look for adjustable shocks preferably with both compression and rebound adjustment.
Tokico HTS is probably the best, then there’s Koni, etc., etc. (Koni’s drop the car 13mm so if you combine the Koni’s and Racing Beat springs you will get your 25mm drop.) Price landed from the US will be around $800 - $1,000.

So your lowering without costing a fortune, if you do the work yourself, will cost you between $300 and $1,800.

Then there’s coilovers starting around $2,000 and running to $4,000 but I feel they are an over kill for the road, really only required if you do motorsport.

[Lucky_Luke]

I too am starting to plan my suspension mods for my 2005 LE NC.

I'm really happy with the standard ride quality of my bilsteins but am planning for some sways and springs to start with just to counter some body roll and have her sit a little prettier. Like most i'd like some added cornering stability and looks but I really dont want to be shuddering over man hole covers.

Based on your recommendations CB here's some of the options I've narrowed down.

(measurements from GWR website)

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... 032nc.html
Eibach's Pro-Kit Lowering Springs - 38mm front and 33mm rear. Front spring rate of 140 pound . Rear is 70/120 progressive.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... -1362.html
H&R Springs - 35mm front and 33mm rear.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... -0792.html
Bump Stop Kit SPORT for lowered NC's
Does anyone have any experience using these kits? I'd rather purchase these than cut up my OEM's. or would they not be necessary with the drops mentioned above?

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... -0589.html
Racing Beat Adjustable Sways - Front 25.4mm tubular bar 3x adjustment holes.
The Rear Racing Beat MX5 Miata Sway Bar is a 19mm OD tubular bar 2x adjustment holes.

& as suggested maybe when my Billies are shot go for some Tokico HTS adjustable shocks.
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... 143NC.html

Can anyone help me out in telling me how the LE bilsteins will react and cope with lowered springs?
I've read on some forums that the bilstein shocks are a softer ride than standard NC shocks, if this is the case will they sit any lower with lowered springs than standard shockers? or can I expect the same drop and ride quality as standard shocks? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I may have to try my luck and apply for another allowance from my better half as the exchange rate is so good atm..

Cheers,
Luke.

[Charlie Brown]

You don't need to cut the bump stops like you did in the NAs. The NC has way more vertical travel.

Have a look at Sailor's garage thread about the Billies and what he did.

On the sway bars, PAU61L has a set of Whitelines for sale. Make him an offer.

When buying from O/S remember to factor in the shipping costs which are quite high from the US.
Then check the cost of local equipment. Kings have the same rates as Eibach at a lower cost. Similarly Whiteline sways, though the bars are solid not hollow. All can be bought locally and I bet you would be able to pick the difference between the two setups.

[Sailor]

Hi Luke.
Don't even think about uprated springs or bars with the std LE Bilsteins.
The rears are overworked and under rated on rebound even with the std springs.
For a cheap fix, get a set of Tokico HTS from Shox.com.
I put mine in with the std springs and got a 15mm drop all round due to lower gas pressure in the shocks.
With the adjustable bars the car rides just a little firmer with medium shock settings and is not overdamped when wound up 1.5 turns back from full hard on the front and 2.5 turns back on the rear. No jacking down.
I fitted a set of Fatcat bump stops and even fully loaded with a boot full of wine, the car rides well with no choppiness from slamming the stops.
For track, I've not reached a skill level yet where I think a harder spring is required..maybe next time CB drives the car he may think differently.
Having said that, I've always liked soft sprung firmly damped cars with hard bar settings.
If you're handy and don't like the setup, it's quick and easy to drop harder springs in later.
My experience has seen most shocks beginning to wane at 60k and pretty much over the hill at 80k...witnessed by the "OMG..the car feels so much better" after a shock replacement.

Oh and if you're rolling in spare cash, concensus seems to be with the Ohlins.....I'll be looking that way when the Tokicos no longer do the job and/or when I feel the need for a stiffer spring.

[Lucky_Luke]

Thanks for the info guys

I'm about to order the RB adj hollow sways which are around $420 delivered to my door which I think seems good value compared to $500 2nd hand whitelines.

Taking your spring comments on board Sailor.. (no pun intended ) I'm still tempted to put springs in ... my car has only done 40k and I believe they still feel good.
I'm thinking that no matter what shocks I install I'll still want to lower it.
As CB suggests, Kings (30mm drop) are available for $280 from ebay so I'm thinking I'll try these with the OEM Billies for a little while, if they aren't to my liking or the ride becomes to harsh I'll upgrade the shocks with ohlins as you suggest.

Bumpstops ... hmmm CB you mention they're not required but Sailor did install them? Can either of you clarify?
I'm thinking whilst I have them apart it might be a worthwhile change?
I have noticed in the hills my NC can tend to understeer a bit and according to the fatcat website changing these for shorter bumpstops can eliminate/counter this understeer ...
Out of interest Sailor do you remember which fatcat bumpstops you installed as there appears to be 8 or so different types to choose from?

Thanks for your advice guys!

Cheers,
L.

[Sailor]

Hi Luke,
Sounds like a deal on the bars!

I'd be very wary of fitting uprated rear springs on the std Bilsteins, they're just not firm enough in rebound.
As I said before my handling went from not great to seriously bad after JUST installing heavier sway bars and I can only conclude that it was the very slight increase in spring rate when the bars were loaded that the Bilsteins could not handle.
Ask around and get a set of used rear normal shocks....the fronts Bilsteins are possible firmer than the std NC shock and seem to work OK. (CB might be able to confirm this)

My bumpstop change was a result of me staying with softer springs. The NC rides off its bumpstops (as do all cars) but gets onto them pretty quickly in hard cornering.
Changing to a well designed bumpstop allows me to get a nice std ride on the softer spring but when the car corners it gets onto the bumpstop quite early and effectively increases my spring rate. The trick is getting a stop that will give a seamless feel in the transition so you need to get one to suit both spring and ride height.
I'm toying with getting a set of packers for the stops to shorten the travel before the car gets on the stops which will see the effective srping rate increase sooner.

Oh and the Ohlins....they're on the wishlist but only after the Tokicos die.

[Charlie Brown]

Luke,

When I fitted the Kings to the stock OEM Tokicos shocks, the NC had only been out for a couple of months and after market bump stops weren’t around.

With this setup the fronts never hit the bump stops. The rears got onto the bump stops only when we both were in the car and the boot was fully loaded with travel gear and only on major dips in the road but it still annoyed me.

Your Bilsteins as Sailor said won’t handle the rebound as well as the OEM Tokicos but I don’t think I’d waste my time fitting some OEM Tokicos to the rear. I’d get the adjustable Tokicos HTS as Sailor did and complete the job in one hit.

You’ll be able to tune out the understeer once you fit the adjustable rear sways. Until then you can go part way with a good alignment.

For the stock suspension, while sitting in the car have the aligner max out the negative camber on the front and set the castor to around 6.5 degrees, toe at zero. Then do the rear camber. Set it the same or 0.1 – 0.2 degrees less negative than the front and have 2mm total toe in. If you have more camber on the rear it will grip more and you won’t achieve the reduction in understeer you’re striving for. If you can’t sit in the car while the alignment is being done, have the aligner put 0.3 degrees MORE negative camber in the driver’s side both front and back. This allows for your weight so when you jump into the car the figures will match left to right.

[Sailor]

Confusing init!?
The thing to remember here is that bumpstops are no longer just a slab of hard rubber designed to stop the metal bits crashing together when the limit of suspension travel has been reached.
Bumpstops now are closer to a 'rubber' spring.

Cars with limited suspension travel use the bumpstops to progressively slow the movement of the suspension as it approaches the limit of movement, this stops the feeling of 'hitting' the bumpstop that we older guys are well aware of. Instead the car gets onto the stops relatively early in the bump and a good set of stops slow the movement to nearly always eliminate the 'hit'.
When fully loaded you'll still feel that 'hit' because the suspension has alreadt compressed the bumpstops and has virtually run out of progression...you in effect have the solid rubber block.
Current Cooper S actually rides ON the bumpstop!

When you look at the std stop it's a soft 'rubber' thing that is easily compressed, aftermarket, like the Fatcat are a firmer plastic that begin their control much more positively a lot earlier.
They give the feeling of a progressive spring that has a higher rate of progression.

Yeah..I know I've repeated myself...it's part of doing this while planning a lesson for a bunch of veggies....BUT

It's all very cool...and I wish I had a proper workshop to play with suspensions at will.

[Lucky_Luke]

You boys are right.. it is a little confusing, until you hand the money over and see what you get and feel the difference its difficult to make a call.
Its interesting to note also that Brian from GWR suggested also that I did not need to go for aftermarket bumpstops.

So far though I'll definitely be getting the RB sway bars.
Shocker/springs wise I haven't strayed too far from my original thoughts and after hearing what you all have to say and talking with Brian from Goodwin Racing, I've come to make a choice between the following 2 options...

Shock/Spring Combo VS. BC Coilovers?

Option 1 - Tokico HTS Adjustable Shocks with Rear Adjuster Extensions and Eibach Pro kit Springs. This can be delivered for around $1250.
Seems to have many happy users of this combo.

Option 2 - When I saw the price of Option 1 I decided that I could actually invest in some BC coilovers from MX Mania for a smidge more which seems like a good alternative considering it would give me infinite adjustability heightwise and damping. There seems to be a few guys running these now and seem reasonably happy.
How hard is it to adjust the rears damping on these? With the Tokico HTS they provide an optional extension piece as the knobs are apparently inaccessible otherwise?

I've never really had 'Coilovers' as such but is this a no brainer decision?
Are the BC coilovers as an option the clearcut winner here?
Can anyone help me out in making a call on the quality/comfort of the BC units vs Tokico Combo?

Cheers guys,
Luke.

[Okibi]

NC2005 attend some MX-5 club of W.A. sprint / autokhana days, there's some quick NCs with various modified suspension setups chat to the owners and see what's right for you within your budget.

[Sailor]

Hey Luke,
Hope you grabbed those Ohlins at $1000 they were a bargain!!

[NC2005]

Is fitting a Front Strut Bar beneficial? Have booked the NC in for Kings Lowerering springs and Whiteline sways F&R.

[JBT]

It already has one that Mazda put on it.

[Charlie Brown]

How hard is it to adjust the rears damping on these? With the Tokico HTS they provide an optional extension piece as the knobs are apparently inaccessible otherwise?

Access to the top of the rear shock, be it Tokico or a coilover, isn’t too hard. The rear plastic boot panel is held on with about 8 pop out clips. I removed the panel for a couple of weeks to give access to the shocks and adjusted the firmness to my liking, Once this was done I refitted the panel. Unless you track the car you probably won’t go near the adjustment again.

I've never really had 'Coilovers' as such but is this a no brainer decision?
Are the BC coilovers as an option the clearcut winner here?
Can anyone help me out in making a call on the quality/comfort of the BC units vs Tokico Combo?

Cheers guys,
Luke.

Sorry Luke I don't know of anyone with an NC running the BC's. I did look at them before I fitted the Tein’s.
There are three models. One is for basic road work, then for another $150 you get one that has a stronger casing does road & track and their top model has a separate reservoir for improved performance and the price jumps another couple of hundred dollars.

I would expect that the BC’s would give you a far firmer ride than the Eibach/Tokico combo. The BC runs 7kg front and 5kg rear springs vs the Eibach of 3kg front and a 1.3 to 2.1kg progressive rear spring.

The reasons I chose to go down the coilover route was to set the height where I wanted it and to be able to adjust the shock to balance the car during track work. If I was just using the car on the road and was happy with the height Kings or Eibachs gave, I wouldn't get coilovers.