ECU reflash for NB8A (??)

[Tony]

Gidday all.

Please bear with me on this one; my tuning skills are very old school and involve a feeler gauge, timing light and vacuum gauge!

I'm tossing up with the idea of doing something to "improve" the ECU and keeping in mind my limited knowledge on the subject, I'm thinking that a reflash tune of the standard ECU may be the easiest option for me.

I've read some threads on the US board and have found a mob in the US called Dynotronics that will reflash a standard ECU (http://www.dptune.com/index.html). If I send them over a second hand ECU plus some dyno data, they'll tune it and send it back. That way I've still got my standard unit and hopefully the whole process should be pretty much be PnP. Cost for the tune is $500.

So, I have a few questions:

Has anyone here had any experience either with the reflash process in general or Dynotronics tunes in particular?

What are some of the potential pitfalls of this process?

What other options are there, keeping in mind it needs to be a fairly straight forward process?

Finally, in the MX-5 are there really any significant performance gains to be had from an ECU reflash or upgrade; particularly as I have no plans of going with forced induction?

Many thanks...

[93_Clubman]

Tony, have you contacted http://www.chiptorque.com.au/ at Nerang (Gold Coast) or one of their dealers? I believe they can help: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=399611

[93_Clubman]

Here's some background on this kind of mod for the '93-'95 inclusive NA8:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=38209
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=37873&p=494711#p494711

Found it worthwhile, although on the NA8 it can be DIY & so costs less. In the case of the NA8, not quite as good as a piggyback ECU, but then the piggyback ECU cost 10 times more. Standalone ECU should be better again, but if you're not going FI, cost again might make it more difficult to justify.

[Tony]

Thanks for all the info... I think!!

I sat here for over an hour following all the links; the only problem was that I only understood about half what was being discussed!! There's obviously a lot of knowledge out there and I know from my LS1 days that lots of smart people are doing their own tunes.

I called Chiptorque and they don't appear do anything with the standard ECU, they use an in-house piggyback system and then tune that specifically to the car. I have no doubt that's probably the best way to go, but starting at around $1700 and having to get it wired in etc takes the gloss off the idea for me.

I'm still keen on the reflash though. Is there anyone else in Oz I could try?

PS: Is there a thread anywhere that describes the correct procedure to remove the ECU from an NB8A?

[93_Clubman]

I called Chiptorque and they don't appear do anything with the standard ECU, they use an in-house piggyback system and then tune that specifically to the car. I have no doubt that's probably the best way to go, but starting at around $1700 and having to get it wired in etc takes the gloss off the idea for me.

I'm still keen on the reflash though. Is there anyone else in Oz I could try?

PS: Is there a thread anywhere that describes the correct procedure to remove the ECU from an NB8A?

I thought given what Stephanie Turner of BEGI/ Bell posted, they were offering reflashing in conjunction with Chip Torque. I believe the Xede is a good piggyback ECU, but as you say it's not what you were thinking, & certainly not what I thought was on offer given the thread. This also explains toymx5's comment in a post a couple of weeks ago about a Chip Torque piggyback. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone else in Oz offering reflashing, but may be someone else does. At least there's now an alternative in the US.

Btw, just disconnect the battery before disconnecting the ECU.

[Tony]

Yeah, from reading Stephanie's thread it appears as though they replace the chip in the standard ECU and then add the tune. Chip Torque didn't offer that option, so it must be something only BEGi offer.

I'm happy to spend $500 or $600, but if it's going to cost $1700+, it moves the whole ECU thing way down my priority list. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'd get the necessary bang for my buck to make it worthwhile at that sort of cost.

Many thanks for all your help so far.

[Tony]

For those playing at home, here's the link to the thread on the Miata board that I mentioned in my initial post.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=400820

Unfortunately like so many threads on almost all of the US boards, this one also ended up in a p!ssing contest and got derailed by someone with an axe to grind. Never-the-less, there's some useful info on the first page or two.

Regards...

[93_Clubman]

Tony, DP Tune appear to suggest they reflash the original factory chip - may be Chip Torque offer this, as opposed to replacing the original chip?

As I understand it Chip Torque did the ECU chip map for the MX5 SP in 2001, which means they must have found a way to either reflash the original factory chip, or they replaced the chip with another which contained the appropriate map. Perhaps it's something they don't offer now, as I recall looking at their website in 2004 & they offered a service for MX5 ECUs, which required you to send them an ECU.

[toymx5]

I sent an enquiry to ChipTorque yesterday via their website asking about modifying ECU's for NB8A's and as soon as I get their response I'll post the details.

[Tony]

We're currently on holidays on the Gold Coast and am staying with rellos at Gavin, right next door to Nerang; so I dropped into ChipTorque today for a quick yarn.

I spoke to Matt Wilson, who's their Workshop Manager. He said that they can do a chip replacement into the Mazda ECU and flash a new tune onto the chip in the same way as BEGi/Bell are doing in the US. Matt did say that the reflash tunes they've done on later model MX5s have showed VERY encouraging results as they can ultimately tune many more parameters than simply spark and fuel.

However, they haven't yet done an NB8A in Australia, so in the short term they'd need your car for a couple of days so they can get some dyno data to finalise their tune. Reading between the lines, I suspect the first couple of NB8A customers will get a customised tune to suit their car and this will then form the basis of their new off-the-shelf tune available to everyone else.

Cost wise, Matt indicated that once the reflash tune has been finalised, it should cost around $795. You'd need to send in your ECU and they'd return it to you once the new chip and tune have been installed.

For the initial couple of tunes however, Matt said it may take up to 2.5 hours of dyno time (at $200/hr) to get the tune set up. My recollection of the next bit is a bit hazy, but I think Matt said that for the first couple of customers they'd do the rechip, reflash and dyno time as a job lot for $1000. No too bad considering you'd be getting what is essentially a custom tune for your car.

If my car was 800kms closer I'd have it down at ChipTorque tomorrow! Is there anyone in SE Qld with an NB8A that would like to volunteer their car as a test mule?

Matt's phone number is 07 5596 4204, or email to matt@chiptorque.com.au.

I hope this info helps; regards...

[Garry]

Someone else you can try is Silverwater Auto Services (SAS) in Sydney. They are the Chiptorque agent in Sydney. According to them, their tuner guru (Dave) worked closely with Lachlan Riddle from Chiptorque in Qld when developing the SP and he's had a fair bit of Mazda experience over the years. They have told me in the past that they have the ability to change the chip in some MX5 ECU's and reprogram with a custom tune (as they did in the SP) but they would prefer to sell you a piggy back computer.

The piggy back computer wasn't an option when developing the SP so they had to use the Mazda ECU. Some clever tuning was required which resulted in a few compromises in the tune as that ECU was never designed to be used in a turbo instalation and the SP had to meet stringent new vehicle emission levels. A retune of the stock ECU in an older non-turbo application may yield better results than in the SP.

[93_Clubman]

Tks for clarifying Tony

[zossy1]

Wow - I understand that aftermarket ECUs can be a pain and have some drawbacks, but $800 for a reflash seems steep when you can have a standard MSPNP for the same price, or a built DIYPNP with all the trimmings for hundreds less.

[Garry]

APR charge around $1500 for a VW/Audi/Skoda reflash which literally takes 5 minutes, and most of that time is plugging everything in. At least with the MX5 the ECU needs to be removed from the car, the original chip unsoldered and a new socket soldered in.