Tein Coilovers

[Entice]

After some advice from my more experienced brethren.

So I'm considering replacing the standard units with some coilovers.

I like the ability to finely tune the height and damping force. Besides, I think the standard units are getting a tad tired, sometimes feels like it's bottoming out.

My car is an otherwise stock 1993 Na6 LE. I intend on keeping the oem units for when the car is ultimately confined to concourse duties.... Given it wont be dríven daily nor see a track, I am not really interested in EDFC

So, I am contemplating:

Tein Super Street
Tein Flex
Tein RA (I may be able to secure a nice set quite economically)
Ohlins (Might be able to get a cheapish set)

Things I have heard:
Flex can be harsh for day to day, esp with THe Tein Pillowballs.
Spring rates should be around 5-6 to 8. Any more and I most likely will not appreciate it
Ohlins are bloody awesome, but so too is the price.

Oh, I initially was only going to drive the car once a week, but given I am enjoying it so much, it is likely to be used around 100Km's per week....

[twinlol]

http://www.nengun.com/blitz/damper-zz-r

Could be another option similar to a flex in terms of spring rates.

[Locutus]

Flex can be harsh for day to day, esp with THe Tein Pillowballs.

i'm no expert but other than the pillowball mounts (you can sell them and use OEM instead) and adjustable lower shock mount (more shock travel), i think flex is the same as SS. mono flex on the other hand, apples & oranges.

[Charlie Brown]

After some advice from my more experienced brethren.

So I'm considering replacing the standard units with some coilovers.

I like the ability to finely tune the height and damping force. ....

Do you want brutal honesty? Don’t get coilovers.

Why? For 100 kilometeres a week it’s a waste of money as none of those K’s are on the track. Make no mistake, coilovers are a track orientated shock and not a shock to be put in a stock ‘93NA.

To “finely tune the height and damping force” may sound great but in reality coilovers are very harsh and have a short (compared to a normal shock) life on the road.

In a NA you need a shock that’s matched to the spring rate, performs well for spirited driving and has good ride comfort. Match this with a good set of bumpstops from Fat Cat Motorsport.

Have a read here: http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/ and learn a bit more about suspension.

[rascal]

Things I have heard:
Flex can be harsh for day to day, esp with THe Tein Pillowballs.
Spring rates should be around 5-6 to 8. Any more and I most likely will not appreciate it

I have Tein SS with 7kg front/5kg rear springs (usually come with 7/6) and imho are waay too harsh for day to day.

Spring rates for even my softer 7/5 is 392lb/280lb which compared to factory standard of 162lbfront/118lb rear is nearly 2 1/2 times the spring rate, and you certainly notice that on the road..

[pcmx5]

I have Tein SS aussie specs in mine set about half hardness and everyone who has dríven it cannot believe that it handles as it does but rides so softly,so my experience is good.
By the way wasn't this to be 'kept standard " car??

Welcome to have a drive of mine at any time Entice (will have it in melb Sunday morning),Your car looks great.Told Denis(former owner for forum members info) and he cannot believe it.

Cheers,

Peter

[Entice]

well yes, car is to be kept "stock"..
But i feel the shocks/springs are perhaps a little tired with some especially front end softness. That's why this is a simple bolt on and easy replacement for eventual concourse duties in future

So, my thoughts are do I purchase a set of Bilsteins, spend $600 plus rebuilding them, and then muck around with springs to suit? If I'm not happy then I'm out of pocket over $1K with a resale around $4-500. Or do I shell out around 1K on a set of coilovers and if I am not happy, resell them for not much less
My Brother has Tein (mono)Flex in his V spec NB, with Jap spec springs. Yes it is a tad on the harsh side of comfortable, but it handles oh so beautifully.


PS, which Bit can Denis not believe???

[pcmx5]

I am sure that your LE had had uprated suspension by the owner before Denis.I had an NA6A with standard springs and adjustable Koni's when we went to Wangaratta to test drive it the LE felt very harsh and certainly wasn't standard,in fact it was the only thing about the car that we did not like.

I reckon the Koni's with standard springs set on middle perch are a really good compromise,good handling and ride.Shox.com has them and with the way the dollar is it is good time to buy.

Peter.

[manga_blue]

Charlie Brown's been smoking something. I've got Teins with 5Kg/4Kg springs and they're still working well with about 100,000Kms on them. It's a very comforable street package which works reasonably well on the track.

[Charlie Brown]

Charlie Brown's been smoking something. I've got Teins with 5Kg/4Kg springs and they're still working well with about 100,000Kms on them. It's a very comforable street package which works reasonably well on the track.

5/4 is down on the normal 7/6 rate for the NA, probably the reason it's "very comfortable" in the ride.

I have Tein SS with 7kg front/5kg rear springs (usually come with 7/6) and imho are waay too harsh for day to day.

Spring rates for even my softer 7/5 is 392lb/280lb which compared to factory standard of 162lbfront/118lb rear is nearly 2 1/2 times the spring rate, and you certainly notice that on the road..

There's a big difference in the recommended spring rates for the NC and the NA/NB, so comparisons are hard.
I'm running 5/4 on the NC where the normal flex rates are 7/5, and the ride leaves a lot to be desired.

[noddi85]

:)

well yes, car is to be kept "stock"..
But i feel the shocks/springs are perhaps a little tired with some especially front end softness. That's why this is a simple bolt on and easy replacement for eventual concourse duties in future

So, my thoughts are do I purchase a set of Bilsteins, spend $600 plus rebuilding them, and then muck around with springs to suit? If I'm not happy then I'm out of pocket over $1K with a resale around $4-500. Or do I shell out around 1K on a set of coilovers and if I am not happy, resell them for not much less
My Brother has Tein (mono)Flex in his V spec NB, with Jap spec springs. Yes it is a tad on the harsh side of comfortable, but it handles oh so beautifully.


PS, which Bit can Denis not believe???

My advice is go coilovers as problems you may have changing your spring’s a lot to find the right ones to go with your oem shock set up. You can actually increase the spring rate with coilovers that are fully adjustable. Eg put extra pressure on the spring = a higher kg spring. As you would have seen most likely at some stage a car with cut springs bounces down the road all over the place due to the simple fact that all the pressure has been taken off the springs. I run a set of BC coilovers in ma NA6 and use the car as a track/Street/Fun car and you can change so many different things for different occasions. I have had mine in the car for over a year and had no problem with them

[rascal]

My advice is go coilovers as problems you may have changing your spring’s a lot to find the right ones to go with your oem shock set up. You can actually increase the spring rate with coilovers that are fully adjustable. Eg put extra pressure on the spring = a higher kg spring. As you would have seen most likely at some stage a car with cut springs bounces down the road all over the place due to the simple fact that all the pressure has been taken off the springs. I run a set of BC coilovers in ma NA6 and use the car as a track/Street/Fun car and you can change so many different things for different occasions. I have had mine in the car for over a year and had no problem with them

You still need to find a spring rate you want with most coilovers(eg BCs) as they use a fixed rate spring not variable, so winding up the shock bump/rebound or adjusting the spring perch doesnt alter the spring rate of the coilover, just the damping rate.

"Eg put extra pressure on the spring = a higher kg spring" is not true.
It may affect the speed at which the car rolls, but it will still predominantly roll the same amount through the same corner.

Coilovers in this case are no different to seperate springs and adjustable shocks, as you'll still need to potentially change springs until you get the spring rate you want.
The advantage of coilovers is the ability to change ride height without having to change springs.

[noddi85]

My advice is go coilovers as problems you may have changing your spring’s a lot to find the right ones to go with your oem shock set up. You can actually increase the spring rate with coilovers that are fully adjustable. Eg put extra pressure on the spring = a higher kg spring. As you would have seen most likely at some stage a car with cut springs bounces down the road all over the place due to the simple fact that all the pressure has been taken off the springs. I run a set of BC coilovers in ma NA6 and use the car as a track/Street/Fun car and you can change so many different things for different occasions. I have had mine in the car for over a year and had no problem with them

You still need to find a spring rate you want with most coilovers(eg BCs) as they use a fixed rate spring not variable, so winding up the shock bump/rebound or adjusting the spring perch doesnt alter the spring rate of the coilover, just the damping rate.

"Eg put extra pressure on the spring = a higher kg spring" is not true.
It may affect the speed at which the car rolls, but it will still predominantly roll the same amount through the same corner.

Coilovers in this case are no different to seperate springs and adjustable shocks, as you'll still need to potentially change springs until you get the spring rate you want.
The advantage of coilovers is the ability to change ride height without having to change springs.

Hmmm i beg to differ but you sound like you know what you’re talking about so I’ll leave you to it, but I will say this.
Quite a few people i know have done the same as i have (put pressure on the springs) and found the car doesn’t roll around corners as much as with the springs normal so it must be doing something and doing this doesn’t change where the dampeners sit. I do understand you can get different kg springs and i wasn’t saying by doing this you could make eg a 5kg spring into a 8kg spring, what i meant was more a 5kg spring to maybe a 6kg spring. Do you have coilovers in your car? Fully adjustable ones eg height as well and spring rate adjustable? If you try what i just explained you could understand what I mean, but at the same time if you have got your setup the way you like it, I can understand not wanting to change

[Charlie Brown]

rascal is correct, preloading the spring doesn't alter the spring rate on a linear spring.

Have a read on this site: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9510_tech/index.html
It's a description for bikes but the same principle applies to car coilover type suspension. Figure 3 graphically shows preload effect.

Also have a read here: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=533929 especially the last post.

Hope that helps some.

[noddi85]

rascal is correct, preloading the spring doesn't alter the spring rate on a linear spring.

Have a read on this site: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9510_tech/index.html
It's a description for bikes but the same principle applies to car coilover type suspension. Figure 3 graphically shows preload effect.

Also have a read here: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=533929 especially the last post.

Hope that helps some.

I admit i was wrong sorry to write something miss leading.
Just seemed that way when i did it and my other mates as well.