Those who race their cars regularly - suspension questions

[mitch_f1]

What do you have in the way of shocks/springs and why? Works well? Tried many options?

Also, if I got my Koni yellows revalved and just a general recondition, will that be like having new shocks? Or is it better to just go new shocks??

[Okibi]

What kind or motorsport? Circuit racing?

[mitch_f1]

sorry, yes. But I would also be interested to hear from people who do rally's such as Targa

[Hellmun]

Chris Gough is your man is you want to ask about Targa suspension setup. Think the Mx5Racing NC's have done quite a few now. AFAIK they run Tein's . Not sure if it's flex or Monoflex though.

[mitch_f1]

But is it really necessary to have adjustable coilovers. Like if I had the choice of having adjustable coilovers, or properly valved and dyno'd shocks with springs (ala Koni yellow with whatever spring), then I'd probably go the latter. Honestly, I wouldn't know what i was doing with adjustable coilovers; and I think this may be the case for most people??

[Hellmun]

They're not really complicated. Usually the valve just combines bump and rebound in one. If the car is bouncing on rough road you soften it. If you get understeer soften the front, oversteer do the rear. If you need more height clearance you can raise them. Similarly for more camber/less drag you can lower it. Gives you more options. Personally I run tein mono-flex with the EDFC and love em. Let's you adjust for different conditions mid session. Most notably useful if it starts raining to soften them up. Be awesome on longer stages with multiple ground types.

I think the coilover is more versatile. You betting on setting up shocks once to be perfect for all conditions.

[Ted]

I ran Targa Tas years ago in my NA with revalved Koni yellows. First time on std springs, then custom springs. Nothing wrong with them, but not what I would do again. Remember that 10 years ago, there wasn't that much around without spending major dollars.

The Koni yellow is a twin tube, and that was its biggest problem for anything longer than say 5 minutes. You could definitely feel the damping go away as it heated up. Mind you, I would probably say similar of a Tein SS (which is what I run on my road cars). Jumping up to the Monoflex will give you the monotube and handle heat better. Though I recently had a steer of a NC on Flex, and was quite impressed at the overall better performance given the same spring rates as the SS.

If it helps, my current play car runs a 46mm monoshock, and its in a mostly tarmac spec but with relatively soft springs to make it a bit easier to drive plus the occasional run on dirt.

[CoffeeBoss]

But is it really necessary to have adjustable coilovers. Like if I had the choice of having adjustable coilovers, or properly valved and dyno'd shocks with springs (ala Koni yellow with whatever spring), then I'd probably go the latter. Honestly, I wouldn't know what i was doing with adjustable coilovers; and I think this may be the case for most people??

Haha, agreed. Most people just like it because they like they novelty of soft settings when taking mum to the shops, and rock hard at the track.

Koni and Ohlins will tell you, however, that damper adjustment is to counteract the wearing of the valves. Thereby maintaining a relatively linear bound through the life of the coilover. So in this respect they are a good thing, particularly when you get them dialled in to where you want. If you were using the car for road and track events, then also they would be worthwhile, although as mentioned above, monotube would be the way to go if you want reliable damper response.

Chris Gough uses TEIN FLEX in his NC's, at least this was the case when I saw him last.

My Super Streets are OK for casual trackday and road use, however after 80'000kms they are really showing their age.
The rebuild cost through Fulcrum is also not much less than the price of a new set.

All things worth considering if you're looking for bang-for-buck performance!
But if that is the case, I'd recommend looking at a valved-to-suit shock and spring combo from Heasemans/Bilstein.

Actually, just listen to Hellmun. He's fast

[mitch_f1]

SO i heard things about the Teins being very variable in their adjustment, like for instance an adjustment of 2 turns on one shock might be as much as 4 turns on the next or something like that. In that respect has anyone bothered to dyno their shocks before putting them in??

[manga_blue]

I've got Tein HAs with about 100,000km on them. They're still good, including no variability in adjustment.

I couldn't go without adjustable coilovers. The car is lowered for track and always raised again for the road. That takes about 2 mins extra per wheel when you're swapping street and track rims. Apart from avoiding the obvious problems with Mr Plod I've found it a bloody nuisance to drive on the highway home at track height. Even squashed foxes and rabbits are high enough to crack the front bar and leave roasting strips of gamey meat on the radiator and all down the exhaust system.

[Boyracer]

For Targa events you need shocks that can handle the bumps...and you also need the travel, so you need something like the flex to get the ride hieght set up without changeing the preload on the spring and the amount of travel.

The roads in tassie for example are very bumpy...something as simple as a Koni/king set up won;t do the job....at very least you need some Tein flex.

basically you need to spend as much as you can afford on the suspension, that is definately where you find a lot of the preformance in targa events...you will find the better cars that have the money will have Proflex Or Penske shocks which start at about $10k for a set.

[mitch_f1]

OKay, so ive been doing my reading, and researching, and obtaining of prices. But just a couple more questions.

It has really come down to either Tein Flex or Tein Monoflex. But what I really want to know is will I notice a difference? Like sure, mono will be better in terms of a targa event, but in reality that may possibly be years away. Also what kind of valving/spring rates should I get?

[project.r.racing]

Like sure, mono will be better in terms of a targa event, but in reality that may possibly be years away. Also what kind of valving/spring rates should I get?

Do you have the $7,000 it costs to enter TARGA? If not and you are actually just beginning you motorsport journey and have started a club level stuff, then just getting a good spring and shock combo will do the job fine. TARGA is an elite motorsport event and not something for beginners just to jump into to. Unless you have a spare $15,000 or so hanging around.

If you do go for coilovers, something like 8kg front and 6kg rear wold do the job.

What perious motorsport history/events have you done?

[mitch_f1]

Hmm, good point. I guess I was just dreaming a bit. But one day I will do it. But you are right, I don't really have the money right now, nor the skill. But as I said, in a few years I might be there.

But I mean, if it costs $1500 to get a brand new Koni yellow and Eibach spring setup, and it costs $2000 for Tein Flex, then why not make that $500 jump for the superior kit? That being said, my 1500 was an estimate, and I haven't really looked into it yet

[project.r.racing]

Nothing wrong with dreaming.

For now I think you'd be best getting the BC coilovers, strut brace and sway bars until you talant and bank account have grown.

Get some curcuit and street sprints under your belt, you'll love 'em if you love tarmac rallying.