Swapping engines!

[Mr nanotech]

[I've summarized this at the bottom in dot points for those who can't be bothered reading the rest]

Listen I'm going to start by saying please do not flame me. I can already see a lot of people cracking it for wanting to do this. I've seen it on other forums so I'm guessing it will happen to me too.
Basically, I'm looking to retire my tired old B6 engine from my na6. I've been looking up the facts and figures etc.. As well as talking it over with my brother (mechanic) and a few other connections.
So I'm looking to replace it with an SR20DET complete with gearbox. I know this has been done before. They have an aluminium block from memory and they're a pretty light engine so I can't see this throwing out the balance too far. But also have a huge after market scene with more than affordable parts and prices.
I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has attempted this at all and if so how they went.
In terms of fitment, where can I find engine mounts or have them made up? What about the gearbox mounts etc? Can I use the sr20 mounts, mx5's or will I have to find aftermarket etc.
These are the bigger concerns. I've already priced up 180sx and s13 front cuts in the past. So I know roughly what I'm looking at. Brother and I will attack this one with his mates in the shed so labour and so on isn't a worry so to speak (in terms of finding experienced people to do the work).

Main concern right now is the fitment etc.. And naturally, any feedback from people who have tried this. The other alternative is to go rotary. I've found a few good 13b half cuts on ebay and so on before from fc's and fd3s. I know this is a pretty common mod, but what are the ultimate costs associated? I can imagine pretty much EVERYTHING including front axles have to go... Though the end result I'm sure is probably worth it, I think it's a little outside my budget.
The SR20DET I can afford and I'd be happy with a motor I know I don't have to constantly rebuild like a rotary...

So yeah, for those who can't be bothered reading the above I'll make it simple here:
*want to install SR20DET
*Anyone on THIS FORUM tried it?
*Engine and gearbox mounts- Custom? Aftermarket? Stock ones from either cars? Kits available?
*Any complications and problems

[93_Clubman]

Blue94t's NA8 Clubman with SR20DET: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=38812

[bruce]

Do a search as this has been discussed a dozen times before...
Summary - huge amount of expense, huge amount of work, unlikely to be street legal.

[mx52nv]

Bruce is right, there has been plenty of discussion on this already so read the previous thread(s).

In a nutshell, what power are you chasing that you could not attain with a built B6/BP turbo motor and a 6 speed box? Seriously, take it from someone that has seen it all (literally) and ask yourself: is 230+rwkw insufficient for whatever purpose you have for the car? My B6 turbo motor has been running for 10 years with no major issues. And I am pretty sure Brett cracked 256rwkw with his BP as well.

You can get this with US sourced forged internals and local turbo components for a competitive price.

Of course if all the above is jibberish then just click here -> http://www.miatasr20.com/.
(that would be Warwick's old car on the front).

Les

[Fatty]

i know you asked for comments from people who have done it, which i haven't, but i was talking to a guy who has done it last saturday and i can give you some info.

his build has been in progress for over 2 years, and isn't completed yet. he's not far off tho. there was a place in perth ( i think) that used to sell a conversion kit and he was lucky enough to score one of these just before they went out of business. the kit did engine and gearbox mounts, it cost him several grand, but obviously there would still be heaps of fabrication that would still need to be done (radiator etc). but yeah unfortunately this kit is no longer available. so it's been a long and expensive process, but it should be a great car once it's finished.

the other car i know of is jake / blue94t's car which has been in progress for about 2 years as well, i think. i'm not sure where this is at as jake seems to have dropped off the radar, but as far as i know it's not finished yet. if it was finished, i would have thought we'd have seen him at a track day but yeah we haven't seen him in a while. he has a lot of contacts in the trade and was doing a lot of the work himself / with mates, all from scratch, rather than using any kit.

there was also a car that turned up at one of our track days a year or 2 ago. it was super fast but had bad overheating issues all day. he could only do a couple of flying laps before having to abort the session and cool the car down. apparently this car was bought over from perth and is well known over there, so les is probably aware of which car i'm talking about. it was red.

so yes it can be done but i think there will always be issues and problems along the way that you didn't factor in, and it'll end up costing a lot more than you thought.

out of interest, there was also a car there on the weekend that had a new BP engine and turbo package. it's a very serious build and was putting out over 200rwkw. this car can easilly light up the rear tyres in 4th gear, so when you can get this much power out of the standard engine i simply don't understand why people still think that all the effort, expense and headaches of the sr20 conversion is worthwhile. sure there is lots of aftermarket support for the sr20, but there is also more than enough aftermarket support for the BP too. sure, not as much as there is for the sr20, but still more than enough. the sr20 parts may be slightly cheaper, but trying to save a few dollars on engine parts by throwing buckets of cash at an engine conversion just seems like flawed logic to me. i mean, really , how much power do you need? my car was heaps of fun with a cheap turbo kit and a measly 120rwkw. and when you can get 200+rwkw out of the BP then why bother?

my 2c

[Fatty]

i guess i just basically repeated what les said, altho in a more rambling, less tactful way

[Mr nanotech]

Well I guess the next questions is how much would it set me back to go the BP turbo route? I don't feel confident turbocharging my B6 with over 250,000km's on the clock.
I've seen a lot of decently priced turbo kits on ebay before time and time again for the Na's, but I think I'd be pushing it to try that on my current motor. I'm looking to put in something a little more serious than the little stock 1.6 in the near future. Hence the looking at rotary or sr20 conversions. I didn't think the standard motors could be pushed that hard though! You guys were saying you're up in the 200kw margin, pretty sure my motor would be lucky to push out 80.

Thanks for your lengthy responses too! Maybe the sr20 could be more troublesome than I first thought. Glad I kept the name of this subject relatively open so we can keep this rolling.

[bruce]

There are probably 12 threads regards engine swaps.
There are probably 120 threads regards turbocharging.
Search is your friend.

[Fatty]

and of course the other thing to consider is that to do it legally, the amount of money you'll need to spend may be better used by selling the NA and putting it towards buying an SE or an SP.

[Mr nanotech]

and of course the other thing to consider is that to do it legally, the amount of money you'll need to spend may be better used by selling the NA and putting it towards buying an SE or an SP.

Feel very naive now, but what actually IS the difference?

[mx52nv]

Legality would refer to the fact that the SE and SP were sold by Mazda Australia as complianced turbo MX5s.

As far as I know, the AVO complete stage 1 kit is compliant with emissions standards but no aftermarket bolt on turbo kit with big power will be legal unless you get an engineer to sign off on everything. This is brings us to another totally different issue as each state has their own laws governing modifications to light vehicles.

Les

[Mr nanotech]

God this is becoming increasingly difficult... Should just sell the car off for a 200sx and be done with!!
What do the SE and SP sell for these days and are they easy to find?

[bruce]

Do you realise that any engine swap or turbo-ing will need to be approved by an Engineer? Victoria in a nutshell - zero chance of any swap or turbo-ing (unless AVO do it).
You would realise this if you had actually used the Search function.

[Fatty]

dog with a bone much, bruce?

[Mr nanotech]

Ha, yeah I know... Guess I just want the gratification of all the answers right now. I'll try to hunt around a little more and see what I can pull up.