Big brakes!! What are you running?

[deviant]

Hi guys,

My NA8 was fitted with a Tarox big brake kit with 10 pot calipers and monster discs.

At best I can only get the pedal feel to be mushy and lacking in feel. I suspect that the master cylinder is not able to move enough fluid for the calipers to really be effective.

Has anybody else on here fitted a big brake kit of some sort?

Did you have to modify or replace the master cylinder to cope? Do you have details of what you used?

[lightyear]

I don't see the need to run 10 piston brakes and big rotors. I can outbrake anyone near me on the track, and i only run NB8B stock brakes with hawk blue pads and braided line. I also run good brake fluid. The only reason i would chage to aftermarket would be to save on weight.

[deviant]

oops double post

[deviant]

949Racing sell a bigger master cylinder with their bbk.

Thanks mate that info is a huge help!

http://949racing.com/miata-wilwood-master-cylinder.aspx

I don't see the need to run 10 piston brakes and big rotors. I can outbrake anyone near me on the track, and i only run NB8B stock brakes with hawk blue pads and braided line. I also run good brake fluid. The only reason i would chage to aftermarket would be to save on weight.

Yeah a past owner fitted them but I can't think why! I only picked the car up a week back so the other night on a quiet road I wanted to get a feel for doing an emergency stop...even with the mushy pedal and not being able to truly lean on the brakes I locked them solid almost instantly. Once they are set up and running better pads I can see they might be unmanageable on track!

I would like to have a go at setting them up properly before I give up though.

[davekmoore]

I would like to have a go at setting them up properly before I give up though.

Good luck with that.

[deviant]

Does the car have stainless steel brake lines and what brake fluid is it using?

If your car doesn't have abs you can buy a brake proportioning valve to help balance them out.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4539&parentid=0&stocknumber=14-76240

It has stainless lines on the front and rubber on the rear. The rubber lines are in very good condition though.

I think I will need a balance valve at some point but at the moment its more a case of poor feel.

[rascal]

I don't see the need to run 10 piston brakes and big rotors. I can outbrake anyone near me on the track, and i only run NB8B stock brakes with hawk blue pads and braided line. I also run good brake fluid.

Thats cos your car only weighs 200kg dave...

Seriously though, I agree with lightyear.. I run std NB8A brakes in my NB8A track car, with Hawk Blues, stainless lines and good fluid changed regularly, and I have never needed more braking power than I have with this setup.

Not knowing your intended usage or your car specs, but unless you have a 200kw monster that you race a lot, then seeing as the Tarox 10pot kits retail around the $3000 mark
( http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/ ... duct=50477) I'd be trying to offload them to someone who may have a bigger need for them and then buy some NB8A or NB8B brakes (sets come up on here occasionally for not much more than $500) and after changeover you'd end up with extra cash in your hand, and still a setup that works very well..

[bruce]

Whoever set up your car with 10 spot brakes is either;
a) a wanker, or;
b) owns a brake shop.

A car that small does not need such big brakes. The car barely has 100kw and weighs only a tonne.
The discs are so small, I can't see how the brakes properly clamp onto them. I think only half the spots would get a chance of clamping down.

Sell them for a bucket of money and get something reasonable. Even 4 spot Brembos are overkill but more appropriate.

[deviant]

I don't see the need to run 10 piston brakes and big rotors. I can outbrake anyone near me on the track, and i only run NB8B stock brakes with hawk blue pads and braided line. I also run good brake fluid.

Thats cos your car only weighs 200kg dave...

Seriously though, I agree with lightyear.. I run std NB8A brakes in my NB8A track car, with Hawk Blues, stainless lines and good fluid changed regularly, and I have never needed more braking power than I have with this setup.

Not knowing your intended usage or your car specs, but unless you have a 200kw monster that you race a lot, then seeing as the Tarox 10pot kits retail around the $3000 mark
( http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/ ... duct=50477) I'd be trying to offload them to someone who may have a bigger need for them and then buy some NB8A or NB8B brakes (sets come up on here occasionally for not much more than $500) and after changeover you'd end up with extra cash in your hand, and still a setup that works very well..

The car is turbocharged and makes 215BHP at the wheels and just over 300NM torque. It is in full road trim at the moment but also has coilovers, LSD etc.

I intend to use the car daily for a month or two and then pull it off the road to strip some weight out of it and just use it for sprints / hillclimbs / trackdays and then after a season of that I would dearly love to race it proper but thats a way down the track yet.

Whoever set up your car with 10 spot brakes is either;
a) a wanker, or;
b) owns a brake shop.

A car that small does not need such big brakes. The car barely has 100kw and weighs only a tonne.
The discs are so small, I can't see how the brakes properly clamp onto them. I think only half the spots would get a chance of clamping down.

Sell them for a bucket of money and get something reasonable. Even 4 spot Brembos are overkill but more appropriate.

As above the car is modified. The discs are much bigger than stock ones..I think they are 280mm or maybe even bigger.

I have been in contact with a bloke that races an MX5 here in WA. Its not got much more power than mine but would be a bit lighter and gives Porsche GT3 cup cars more than a run for their money, he uses Nissan Skyline GTR 4 pot Brembos with a bigger master cylinder as he had the same spongy feeling followed by the brakes grabbing and locking up. At least my theory has been confirmed!

Looking at 949Racing again their brake kit looks far more suitable and much more balanced.. http://949racing.com/miatawilwoodV8R.aspx

[16bit]

hey mate i have ap racing front brakes and the pedal is a little mushy at the top but really firm once you get down to it. once heat is in them and you stand on them they stop violently from speed.

if you are mushy all the way then you have either sh*t fluid or bubbles.

having a larger volume inside your caliper will only increase the amount of travel needed to get pressure up. once its there then the pedal should be firm.

Danny (orx626) will be able to answer how to fix the problem if there is a fix.

however i do believe that increasing the size of the master cylinder will decrease pedal travel but increase the required effort.

and the reason these have 10 pistons is because they are attempting to get the pressure across the pad even. that said this caliper is probably over kill for what the mx5 needs.

please refer to this link - http://www.tarox.com/en/racing-calipers.php

the caliper used is the B32-10

whatever you decide to do good luck mate - brakes are pretty important as you would know!!


on a side note you setup is pretty pimp.

[16bit]

another note is that have really good brakes can expose bad tyres. maybe try some stickier rubber - even borrow some.

[deviant]

Thanks for the help / advice 16bit.

Yep the pedal is mushy until past the half way point and then the brakes are there and working but lacking in feel. Personally I can not tolerate any mush in a pedal at all. I like it rock solid and needing a firm push.

Yep they are the B32 calipers, lovey looking bits of kit and very well made.

RE the tyres, it is running high end Goodyears which offer silly amounts of traction and grip but can still be overwhelmed by the awesomeness of 10 pot brakes!! I have also got a 2nd set of rims with A032R semis on them that look to be past their best.

Anyway I have gone ahead and ordered the master cylinder from 949Racing, not very expensive and if its not the fix to the problem then I will look at selling all the kit together and getting something else.

[sliq]

got pics of your car? i'm very keen to see.

i'd say these brakes were an unsuspecting bonus surplus to most people's needs, but hey, if they come with the car, no one's complainin

[Okibi]

A brake master cylinder brace might also help improve pedal feel.

[deviant]

Apart from the BD roll bar its pretty sleeper spec...