What is in our fuel systems that makes it non E-fuel friendl

[kula]

Ive seen some spectacular results with E85, and I know that MX5 fuel systems dont even like E10. So what is it?
the rubber hoses? fuel pump? something else?

I'm almost considering ripping it all out and going full custom to make it suitable for E85.

[sprx3]

rubber hoses

[Mr Morlock]

a number of older engines also do not like ethanol- check Mazda recommendation. No value in my opinion. E85 is a marketing thing

[Rob E]

No value in my opinion. E85 is a marketing thing

isnt E85 around 100 RON and cheap? I would think that its worth looking at.

[Benny]

You might think that by using E85 that you are helping the environment, but this is not the case.

If you use E85, your fuel consumption will go up, up, up and it still releases CO2 into the environment, and may even spew out more CO2 than using pure petrol as you are using so much more of it.

There are also other ethical reasons to stay away from E85, as the crops used to make it could have gone into feeding the needy instead of your fuel tank.

People say that using E85 helps the environment because the CO2 released was originally sucked in by the plants that made it, but then again, it is the same with oil, as that was also originally made from plants, just a few million years ago instead of yesterday.

Personally, I think there are lots of other forms of energy we are not using, yet have have huuuuge supplies, like the frozen methane under the oceans etc, and I feel that agriculture should be for growing food to feed the hungry.

Anyway, as far as CO2 goes, there have been many times in the earth's history where CO2 levels were a hundred times greater than it is now, and the earth not only survived, but actually prospered during these times, as plants would grow around 40% faster and stronger if the CO2 levels were doubled from today's levels.

In order to convert your car tpo run on E85, without too many problems, you would need to replace ever rubber piece in the entire fuel system, and replace any steel fuel lines with stainless tubes as the alcohol in the E85 could cause the steel to rust.

It's a big job to do.

[Guran]

Ummm, Benny let's not complicate this thread with global warming scepticism OK. It's a slippery slope you're on there. Some further reading. E85 is not just about environmental friendliness. Ethanol is a renewable resource (unlike petrol which we are quickly running out of), provides increased economic benefits for rural populations, and keeps more dollars in the domestic economy.

E85 does have higher octane, but the fuel is less dense than petrol so it means you have to burn more of it to produce a given amount of energy. The net benefits in fuel consumption are pretty insignificant. Read the details here. From a global warming perspective, it is a better solution than petrol because it less carbon positive in the net lifecycle. Burning petrol releases carbon that was buried so it is very much carbon positive. Note that in Australia, ethanol is produced from sugar cane unlike in the USA where it comes from corn.

Some general info on E85 use in standard engines.

[silvermiata]

i thought ethanol fuel caused corrosion on metal fuel lines not the rubber hoses, thats why it is supposed to be bad for the older cars. (newer cars have suitable fuel lines which would not corrode with ethanol)

[GP]

Alcohol eats rubber so all hoses will have to be silicone. This could cause problems in the entire fuel system.

[bigdog]

I don't think Kula is looking for fuel economy, and he obviously has some experience/exposure to other cars that have been tuned to run on E85. I'm pretty sure the fuel pump would be susceptible to ethanol (a lot of pumps are), but you should be able to replace it with a suitable one, then there are the rubber fuel lines and o rings on the injectors (a good injection specialist should be able to sort those out). As a rule of thumb on consumption allow around 200% increase This was our experience going from avgas to methanol in Dad's TC (he ran out of fuel in his first practice at Eastern Creek!). Based on that experience you would need to look at bigger injectors and an ECU change, but I'm sure you're already thinking on those lines. Would love to see this done with some before/after figures

[Benny]

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/clim ... ience.aspx is about as factual as the "facts" stated in "An Inconvenient Truth", which now has to have a disclaimer shown before it is ever shown in the UK, as it has been debunked.
In other words, most of it is bull and what isnt bull has been skewed so badly, that it makes the bull sound real.

This web page from the government is only there to try and get support for a whole new way of governments ripping more tax out of us, as well as providing us with a whole new level of beaurocrats and has little basis in actual truth.

The real facts are that if we are really serious about climate change, we should be working to get rid of the MAJOR causes of CO2, rather than taxing us out of existance.
If they said they were going to put catalytic converters on all the active volcanoes, and do something about the gasseous emmissions from all the frozen methane in the oceans, then they would be doing something that could actually make a difference.
The people who write this tripe want all cars to be converted to run on hydrogen, instead of petrol, which sounds fine.
However, the emmissions from hydrogen powered vehicles would be water vapour, and every scientist knows that water vapour is a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2.

Sorry for the rant.

[broady]

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/climate-change/science.aspx is about as factual as the "facts" stated in "An Inconvenient Truth", which now has to have a disclaimer shown before it is ever shown in the UK, as it has been debunked.
In other words, most of it is bull and what isnt bull has been skewed so badly, that it makes the bull sound real.

This web page from the government is only there to try and get support for a whole new way of governments ripping more tax out of us, as well as providing us with a whole new level of beaurocrats and has little basis in actual truth.

The real facts are that if we are really serious about climate change, we should be working to get rid of the MAJOR causes of CO2, rather than taxing us out of existance.
If they said they were going to put catalytic converters on all the active volcanoes, and do something about the gasseous emmissions from all the frozen methane in the oceans, then they would be doing something that could actually make a difference.
The people who write this tripe want all cars to be converted to run on hydrogen, instead of petrol, which sounds fine.
However, the emmissions from hydrogen powered vehicles would be water vapour, and every scientist knows that water vapour is a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2.

Sorry for the rant.

Argh, can we please not start up a "discussion" about climate change on this forum.

[Garry]

I have read that one of the reasons the car manufacturers dont list their vehicles as being suitable to run on ethanol fuels is because they haven't done the emission tests to pass Govt regulations. There may or may not be any incompatability issues with the fuel for that particular vehicle. As you all know it is illegal to operate a vehicle that doesn't meet the Govt mandated emission requirements so the manufacturers cant recomend it if they dont know if it passes emissions tests.

[bensale]

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/climate-change/science.aspx is about as factual... etc

What We Should Not Talk About
Politics, Religion, Sex, Personal Attacks and Slandering Businesses are the main topic's to steer well clear of.

As much as I'd like the argue with you this is a car forum and the rules are pretty clear, probably best to avoid a political debate on Climate change.

Cheers

On topic don't Saab (or rather didn't Saab) quite successfully sell a number of e85 capable models overseas? It was quite benifital for performace, not sure about consumption.

[StanTheMan]

I've considered this for some time. Running 2 maps on the adaptronic. Increasing the timing to increase compression. also increasing the size of the injectors. But that can be avoided by fitting one of those fuel pressure regulators.
thigys.....( i forget the name now) unfortunately they are also illegal to be fitted
the only petrol station I'm aware of which sells E85 is one in Rozelle. Someone on this forum has is/was running a set up like that. If I remember correctly he's getting about 200 km per tank. Similar output to an SP without the $2 mod. on an NB. I don't kow what drivability was like but the chap seems to know what he's on about. He also tuned the ecu himself. As far as rubber or fule lines goes. not entirely sure. I know I had to check if the tank on the NA was lined. which I never did.

is it possible in Brazil they have a little box which can tell what type of fuel you are running & adjusts the timing accordingly?



on a side note. Yes lets keep the evrioment discussion out of it. there is plenty of info on the internet. for both sides. And since some of the posts have both political & subject we are discussing. I've decided its too hard to edit it out. I couln't be buggered.

[Hammer]

i thought ethanol fuel caused corrosion on metal fuel lines not the rubber hoses, thats why it is supposed to be bad for the older cars. (newer cars have suitable fuel lines which would not corrode with ethanol)

Same here.

I read part of the composition of ethanol is simple sugar compounds. And as you well all know, sugar causes corrossion on metal - even easier on alloys/aluminium. And as people already commented, I've also read its not as efficient litre per litre compared to non-ethanol blended petrol. If I remember the article correctly, Ethanol is around 30% less dense than petrol.

Which in theory could mean your car will burn more fuel for the same bang, or flip it in another way, same economy, less bang. How much more, or how much less? I can no longer recollect. What I do remember from the article was they concluded that E85 is false economy even at its current slight price advantage at the bowser.

But who here buys fuel for their beloved MX5 for economy? I'm sure we use the types of fuel in our 5 to give us more <Jeremy Clarkson impersonation> POOOOOWAAARRR!!!!. Am I right? (I could feel a can of worms )

As for me, just to be safe, I stick to my 98 Octane fuels like V-Power and Ultimate.