Bolt on spacers question.

[16bit]

I am about to purchase some bolt on spacers. They will be about 25mm thick and bolt over the original studs and have there own studs. The do not however have a hub ring. I was wondering if this is as much of an issue with the bolt on type of spacers. I would have thought so but just wanted to check. If it is then I will be able to find some that have a hub ring.

[manga_blue]

I've used 20mm and 25mm spacers with no centring rings on a few track days. No issues at all. The studs pull the spacers and wheels to centre anyway.

Just check that the studs and nuts for the mount to the old hub do not sit proud of the new mounting surface for the wheels. Some wheels have cutouts for the extra studs and nuts, some don't. If they don't you'll need to fix that, either by opening out holes in the wheels or shortening studs and nuts on the spacer. It may only be a millimeter or two.

[16bit]

i will definitely do some measuring before the final purchase is made. thanks mate.

[Speedyblue]

There is a pretty good chance that the wheels will wobble at high speed, like they are out of balance. Two lots of lug centric connections isn't quite enough to perfectly allign everything, expecually if the lugs aren't spot on. You'd be better off getting hub centric ones.

[Benny]

There is a pretty good chance that the wheels will wobble at high speed, like they are out of balance. Two lots of lug centric connections isn't quite enough to perfectly allign everything, expecually if the lugs aren't spot on. You'd be better off getting hub centric ones.

I agree with Speedyblue on this one.
While you might be able to get away without having the hub centered, it's good insurance, as without them, you are putting all the stress and strain on the studs, and if the wheel nuts are not torqued up 100% or they werent' tightened in the correct sequence, you could have an out-of-round problem.

You can get the hub spacers from virtually any tyre and wheel place and they only cost a few $$.

Take one of your spacers in to them so they can find a set that fit just right into the spacer, and also the hub.

Also, did you know that it is illegal to drive a car on a public road with wheel spacers?
If a cop notices them, it's an instant defect.

[manga_blue]

I agree with Benny on some points, disagree on others. I wouldn't contemplate using them on the roads - they're cop magnets so I change them at the track. The spacer rings that tyre shops sell are plastic - they don't do anything structural, they just help you centre while you're tightening. My experience is that if you take reasonable care then you'll get the wheels centred OK without them. I've got a wobble once in about 20 fitments. Once tightened they don't budge.

[little decks]

These spacers that use their own studs are quite dangerous.

Ive been to a couple of race meetings where guys with MX-5s using these have lost a wheel, luckily they werent near a wall.

The problem is ,like benny said, that all the load is put onto the wheel studs, which arent made to take so much force in that direction, they are a cheap and nasty solution to widening your track and really to be using them on a circuit (which lets be honest where else would you use them) is quite dodgy.

The PROPER way of spacing your wheels is to replace the wheel studs in the hub with longer ones and buy (or have made) a spacer that fits onto the hub locater and has the same locater that fits the wheel. With the longer studs there is enough length for the spacer and the wheel.

[16bit]

ok so what about the spacers that bolt to your original studs, have the correct centre bore of 54.1mm to fit the hub ring and also have a ring that fits perfectly to the centre bore of the wheel?

like these ones - drm series.

http://www.hrsprings.com/products/trak/

[little decks]

It is still not ideal as you are still applying a torque/turning moment to the spacer itself.

Yes granted they are much better than the others than have no locaters but still not ideal

[manga_blue]

These spacers that use their own studs are quite dangerous.

Ive been to a couple of race meetings where guys with MX-5s using these have lost a wheel, luckily they werent near a wall.

The problem is ,like benny said, that all the load is put onto the wheel studs, which arent made to take so much force in that direction, they are a cheap and nasty solution to widening your track and really to be using them on a circuit (which lets be honest where else would you use them) is quite dodgy.

The PROPER way of spacing your wheels is to replace the wheel studs in the hub with longer ones and buy (or have made) a spacer that fits onto the hub locater and has the same locater that fits the wheel. With the longer studs there is enough length for the spacer and the wheel.

hmmmmm..... What I'm using are these, from the racing gear section of MX5Mania's site.
http://www.mx5mania.com.au/product1036.htm

Wheel spacers available in 20mm and 25mm. Machined aluminum, Race tested. Get rid of that unwanted over steer. The spacers make the car very stable by widening the track

[little decks]

I'm pretty sure i know which spacers they are....they dont have a locater for the wheel do they? If they are the ones i think they are they wont.

Put it this way, there is a very good reason factory hubs and good quality spacers have wheel locaters on them, and its not just so the wheel goes on true, it ensures that there isnt too much load on the wheel studs

[manga_blue]

The PROPER way of spacing your wheels is to replace the wheel studs in the hub with longer ones and buy (or have made) a spacer that fits onto the hub locater and has the same locater that fits the wheel. With the longer studs there is enough length for the spacer and the wheel.

This type of fitting is prohibited by CAMS. From the Group 2 regs:
"8.10 Wheel track: The front and rear track dimensions may be increased by a maximum of 100mm. Track extenders or spacers may be used provided that they are fixed to the wheel hub."

[tbro]

UMMMMM!!!!!!!
Maybe I'm a bit thick but I flowered how using 25mm longer wheel studs going through 25mm spacers, not being tolerance fitted to the studs as they are all threaded all the way, can be stronger than spacers bolted to the hub??????

My preference is (1) to make up new hubs, quite easy to do, any decent machine shop can do it, (2) thread the original hubs and bolt the spacers to the hub using grade 8+ cap screws,making sure that the screws are not proud of the spacers as Magna-Blue said, (3) bolt up spacers using nuts Yuck!!!! (4) leave the longer studs in the shop to fill their stock.

But hey WTF would I know.

And BTW spacers are illegal in the Pineapple state.


Terry

[little decks]

UMMMMM!!!!!!!
Maybe I'm a bit thick but I flowered how using 25mm longer wheel studs going through 25mm spacers, not being tolerance fitted to the studs as they are all threaded all the way, can be stronger than spacers bolted to the hub??????

I dont know if you read properly above...but is not the spacer itself that is weak, and the studs themselves arent weaker but the fact that an increased force is being imposed in a direction that is not really intended for the studs to brace. And if you like to do things properly you buy proper wheel studs that are not threaded the whole way, and are tolerance fitted exactly the same way as standard, they are exactly te same except for the fact that they are longer.

With these spacers on quicker track cars, I have actually seen studs elongate the holes in the wheel towards the outside of te rim as they now have to counteract some degree of centripetal force, as these spacers only locate the wheel using studs.

On the subject of custom hubs, Dad is actually having a set machined for the his new turbo racecar to suit tapered bearings, but the custom brake hats he made actually double as a wheel spacer and locate on the wheel properly.

[little decks]

The PROPER way of spacing your wheels is to replace the wheel studs in the hub with longer ones and buy (or have made) a spacer that fits onto the hub locater and has the same locater that fits the wheel. With the longer studs there is enough length for the spacer and the wheel.

This type of fitting is prohibited by CAMS. From the Group 2 regs:
"8.10 Wheel track: The front and rear track dimensions may be increased by a maximum of 100mm. Track extenders or spacers may be used provided that they are fixed to the wheel hub."

Hmmm...experience in motorsport shows in rule interpretation.... Technically once the wheel is properly secured the spacer is technically fixed to the wheel hub, this rule does not specifically say that the spacer must be secured independant of the wheel