Aftermarket ECU with lock codes

[Novice1]

Interested in others opinions. I, have a Haltech E8 management system, tuned by a haltech dealer in brisbane. I, have the software to link up with ECU on my laptop.
However, the haltech dealer as password protected myself or anyone else overriding his tuning.
The dealer will not reveal to myself or any other tuner the password. Basically, I am being hijacked to the tune of $150/hour for him to retune my car.
I, believe consumer affairs or the fair trade practicing commission would rule in my favour if I were to push the issue.
Eg, I move to south australia, a remote town with no haltech dealer, my car is out of tune.....basically I would be stuffed.
I, have heard several arguments a) dealers are protecting home tuners from blowing up their cars by altering a "safe tune".
b) Many millions of dollars have been spent on ECU companies designing,marketing their product and they are protecting same by the use of lock codes, password protecting the program.
If, I could get into the program, I could get it tuned at much less than $150/hour and still maintain a safe tune. The tune would be done by a guy who tunes race cars all the time, not some dodgy backyard mechanic.
What do others think?
Cheers Novice1

[mx52nv]

Contact Haltech now and get to the highest authority within the company and voice your concerns (mention consumer affairs).

The Haltech ECU is your property and the tuner may argue intellectual property of the tune but when push comes to shove, Haltech should be able to clear your ECU tune & password. Then you can take it to someone who will tune your car and will not use the password protection or at the very least, will give you the password or let you set it.

Les @ MX5 Shop
P.S.
This has happened to one of my old customers and his ECU (which will remain nameless).

[Novice1]

Cheers Mx52:
My mechanic friend is currently liaising with an australian guy who used to market Haltech in the USA.
He is willing to insert master code, which will allow us to then tune car.
He is however unwilling to tell myself or my mechanic who he does a lot of work with what the code is.
I, will however contact Haltech personally to address this issue. I, believe the practice is wrong on several levels.
At no time during the purchase of the Haltech was I told I would NOT be able to have car tuned elsewhere.
Cheers Novice1

[sliq]

Hrmm.. With fair trading it's a bit tricky. You have to be aware some sales are BUYER BEWARE. i.e. You have to make your own inquiries in relation to what it can do and what it can't. It's unlikely Fair Trading will take it any further unless you can show you were misled and deceived. Did they tell you you could actually take it anywhere to tune? Or they simply didn't disclose? I know it may sound unfair but sometimes you have to be on your toes when buying things.

[Okibi]

You paid someone to adapt a piece of software to suit you , you should own the code.

It would be like an accountant giving you your tax return without showing you all their calculations.

It's easy enough for the dyno operator to give you a password on condition that you sign a piece of paper to say their reputation can't be brought into disrepute should anything go wrong.

[Novice1]

Hrmm.. With fair trading it's a bit tricky. You have to be aware some sales are BUYER BEWARE. i.e. You have to make your own inquiries in relation to what it can do and what it can't. It's unlikely Fair Trading will take it any further unless you can show you were misled and deceived. Did they tell you you could actually take it anywhere to tune? Or they simply didn't disclose? I know it may sound unfair but sometimes you have to be on your toes when buying things.

Before purchasing the Haltech I looked at it and several other ecus's Motec etc. I, looked at what each unit could and could not do.

The dealer who sold it to me failed to disclose that a) they would put a lock code on it when they tuned it b) failed to tell me I could take it elsewhere to be tuned.
CHeers Novice1

[Novice1]

You paid someone to adapt a piece of software to suit you , you should own the code.

It would be like an accountant giving you your tax return without showing you all their calculations.

It's easy enough for the dyno operator to give you a password on condition that you sign a piece of paper to say their reputation can't be brought into disrepute should anything go wrong.

The simple response would be for them to remove the code. Their argument would be that they are then allowing unscrupulous people to copy their product.
CHeers Novice1

[Okibi]

You're not copying their product OR their software, you've making a copy of your "preference file", the one you paid them to create for you.

[Steampunk]

You paid someone to adapt a piece of software to suit you , you should own the code.

It would be like an accountant giving you your tax return without showing you all their calculations.

It's easy enough for the dyno operator to give you a password on condition that you sign a piece of paper to say their reputation can't be brought into disrepute should anything go wrong.

ditto

you paid the tuner for their services which is to play around with YOUR software on YOUR equipment.
YOU paid them for their expertise and knowledge, nothing more, nothing less.

The tuner receives money for services rendered, you receive a tuned map.

Ownership of code has been a contentive issue with many tuners and owners and IMO, tuners have little ground to stand on.

If Haltech refuses to unlock your software, and it becomes a matter or principle, then post your disgust on as many car forums as you can.

[Novice1]

I, spoke to the guy in charge of Haltech australia today.
He stated that the software is the "intellectual property" of Haltech and tuners are within their rights to put lock codes, passwords onto the system.
I, asked him whether this had been tried legally in court. He stated, yes several times, a legal precedent as been established for tuners to protect the manufacturers work.
My next step is to seek advice from a lawyer who deals specifically in this type of matter.
Fortunately, I work with a nurse who is also a lawyer. I, will ask her to seek out info on this matter.
Basically, I was told any tuner can start with a base map and tune it from there.
I, have already tried this and the car ran like a dog.
Cheers Novice1

[mx52nv]

I, spoke to the guy in charge of Haltech australia today.
He stated that the software is the "intellectual property" of Haltech and tuners are within their rights to put lock codes, passwords onto the system.....Basically, I was told any tuner can start with a base map and tune it from there. I, have already tried this and the car ran like a dog.

Hi Novice1,
Just to clarify... so your Haltech ECU is accessible for any other tuner to start from scratch? It sounds like the original tuner and Haltech are saying they do not want anyone to touch their "intellectual property" fuel & ignition maps. So if that is the case, I would have thought any competent tuner with some Haltech experience & the Haltech tuning software should be able to help you...? You should at least own a CD with the tuning software with your Haltech?

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with what Haltech and their tuner are stating. I am just looking for immediate solutions so you can get your car tuned and running the way you want.

My quick search found this -> clicky.

Options:

Post by Mitsiman on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:46 pm
You can either try and get the password from the previous owner/tuner or you have wipe the ECU and start from scratch and retune from the start.

Post by beehive on Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:52 am
Try connecting to the E6X with the DOS software instead of HalWin. The DOS software does not have a place for a password & doesn't seem to care.

I do personally feel for you as I am sure when you purchased the item and tuning service, no mention of this was ever written or expressed to you. However, if you so choose, the principle can be argued and dragged into court which could take even more money, time and could just be a lesson in futility.

I sincerely hope it works out for you. Good luck.
Les @ MX5 Shop

[Novice1]

Cheers Mx52nv.
At no time did the shop who I purchased the Haltech off, disclose that I or anyone else would not be able to access the tuning maps.
The software is freely available from the Haltech site, which I have. I was not given a CD with programming software.
Thanks for the leads to how I may get around the problem.
All I can say is BUYER BEWARE if you are purchasing aftermarket E.M.Systems.
I, maybe wrong but I would have thought that the tuning maps would only be of any benefit to my car and its setup.
Cheers Novice1

[Steampunk]

Intellectual property my ass.
You have bought the RIGHT to Haltech's software. You paid them over a thousand dollars for both the hardware and software, it's YOURS.
All the tuner does is change settings, they don't install/program anything new, or their own stuff, into the software.
If that was the case, then yes, I would stand on the tuner's side.

It's like buying a DVD and then getting busted for playing it at home whilst other people, who didn't pay for the DVD watches it with you.

I'm sure Haltech realises how many competitors they have these days. It's not like it was 12 years ago when there were only a handful of aftermarket computers to choose from. If they keep this up, they will not survive.

It's this reason why I steered away from Aussie EMS'ses.
As much as I like to support Australian business, there has to be reciprocation.

[Novice1]

Intellectual property my ass.
You have bought the RIGHT to Haltech's software. You paid them over a thousand dollars for both the hardware and software, it's YOURS.
All the tuner does is change settings, they don't install/program anything new, or their own stuff, into the software.
If that was the case, then yes, I would stand on the tuner's side.

It's like buying a DVD and then getting busted for playing it at home whilst other people, who didn't pay for the DVD watches it with you.

I'm sure Haltech realises how many competitors they have these days. It's not like it was 12 years ago when there were only a handful of aftermarket computers to choose from. If they keep this up, they will not survive.

It's this reason why I steered away from Aussie EMS'ses.
As much as I like to support Australian business, there has to be reciprocation.

Thanks Andrew:
To be fair I can see both sides of the argument. My peeve is that I wasn't made aware of what I could or could not do with the Haltech by the dealer,who shall remain nameless.
Actually, I paid $1700 for the E8, $750-$1,000 for tuning can't quite remember the exact price.
I, also mentioned to the Haltech dealer, tuner that I had spent more than $20,000 in his shop over the years, to which he just shrugged his shoulders.
I, am not going to comment anymore than I have until my legal co-worker gets some advice on the issue. Not quite sure why my car is running rich, only tuned in January. Timing belt was done by Danny. Inspection of timing showed everything is spot on. Must be gremlins:)
Cheers Novice1

[Steampunk]

I, also mentioned to the Haltech dealer, tuner that I had spent more than $20,000 in his shop over the years, to which he just shrugged his shoulders.

That's just f%#ked.
Where is the service these days?!?!
One would think that in today's economic climate, a service provider (which is pretty much what 98% of all of us are) would bend over backwards to appease their customers.

I'm actually pretty peeved on your behalf Ron.
Let's get some rotten eggs and egg the joint one night. About 50 dozen should do eh?

Oh, and as for running rich, the O2 sensor was disconnected by any chance?