Cosworth supercharger for the NC

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Phil @ P5
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby Phil @ P5 » Thu May 21, 2009 5:55 pm

zombie wrote:It appears Delta Force / Sniper Tuning are still ironing out the differences between U.S. ECUs and those in the rest of the world :cry:

Supercharged NCs go boom in Europe :shock:

Has anyone actually installed one of these in Australia yet? I wonder if our ECUs are similar to the Yanks, the Europeans or different again...

- Matt (not commenting on the irony of "Blown" engines)

2 cars have popped in Europe as far as I know. One in the UK (I have pictures) and one in Germany, so Cosworth have issed a Worldwide Cease & Desist. From the conversations I've had with a couple of people it sounds like a mapping fault rather than the hardware. The CEL (MIL) has come one and shortly afterwards the rods have said hello to the outside air. I would put my money on the injectors locking open causing a massive hydrolock. There's been no issues in the US, so it seems that there may be a difference in the stock ECU program.

Phil

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby Juffa » Sat May 23, 2009 11:19 pm

Former owner of Mailbu Stacey, Smurfette and Tweety.

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby CoffeeBoss » Mon May 25, 2009 8:58 pm

Well after all the doom and gloom of engine destruction post S/C install, bluemeaney's car makes me lust of the Cosworth supercharger all over again! Sounds fantastic! Full Goodwin Racing RoadsterSport exhaust with RoadsterSport Q muffler (GW Racing's 'quiet' muffler). Tasty.

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby CoffeeBoss » Mon May 25, 2009 9:36 pm

He's seems to enjoy demonstrating exactly what it is like :D
S/C NC with full exhaust vs standard car:

Last edited by CoffeeBoss on Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby CoffeeBoss » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:58 pm

Flyby at Laguna Seca.


grazza

Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby grazza » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:38 am

I read that whole thread on the english site and picked this reply as a summary:

Mazda or is it more Ford, (Duratec based engine) has on the 06 to 09 LF engine saved a few hundred pounds on each car produced by fitting a crank, rods and pistons which are ok for up to 160 bhp.
To get a safe and reliable engine for 300bhp we now know it needs high quality forged parts instead of the nasty cheaper cast parts which have been fitted so far.
The new face lift model has now got much stronger and improved forged parts,and fully floating pistons. Mazda claim they have gone to all this effort to lift the rpm by 500. The max power is now @ 7000 not 6700 rpm not sure where 500 came in, it is also in a lower tax bracket than the older NC model and more economical so job well done a great pity this was not done from the start in 2006. Ford have recently sold shares in Mazda and perhaps now have less influence on production costs. Cosworth do research work for Ford and Mazda and have helped with the design of the Duratec and MZR verion of the engine, so are well placed to modify and improve the power.
The old MK1 and MK2 MX5 engines will happily take up to 300bhp from turbo or supercharged forced induction, so we all assumed including Cosworth that aftermarket tuning would be ok. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The NC model is a great car, I think Mazda have done a great job for the price, in real terms it is no more expensive than the MK1 when it was new. But the NC version has ABS, Airbags x 4, Traction control, Heated seats, etc,etc. So somewhere a few corners had to be cut, where better than inside the engine. No one will notice, until now. For the majority of drivers 160 bhp is more than enough, I pass quite a few MX5's being passed by HGV's at 56 mph down the motorways so those drivers will not be to concerned about tuning for more power.
As you will have noticed from my other posts I would be the last person to complain about the weak engine, even though it was my car which the engine failed on causing me to have a nasty accident (one of four engine conrod failures I now know of, this is not the same problem as the dozen or so engines which have had bigend bearing failures and where not modified). When the engine is rebuilt by Cosworth with all upgraded engine parts and it has its new Mazdaspeed body kit, I shall be forgetting about all the previous problems and putting it down to experience, this is how we learn, from our mistakes. Thank goodness some companies and individuals do push the bounderies or we would all be driving around in bog standard, 50 bhp, safe, euroboxes, with speed limiters which of coarse would suit the goverment.

Regards Mike.


Any thoughts on this? - As before I read the thread on the other forum, it was looking like a software calibration problem, not a fundamental weakness (if you want to get more than 160bhp) of all NC's except the very latest.

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JBT
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby JBT » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:35 am

Yes, there are problems with the Cosworth SC and the NC. There is more on the US website.
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby @ndrew » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:54 am

There have actually been more than 2 engines that have popped worldwide.

Spoke with a Japanese workshop owner whose had 2 engines blow due to bent rods and damaged pistons. His up to his third engine at the moment. :shock: I'll try to post a few pictures soon.

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby Hammer » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm

@ndrew wrote:There have actually been more than 2 engines that have popped worldwide.

Spoke with a Japanese workshop owner whose had 2 engines blow due to bent rods and damaged pistons. His up to his third engine at the moment. :shock: I'll try to post a few pictures soon.


Hmmmm??? Sounds similar to the SPs - only worst :oops: 8)
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby zombie » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:28 am

There's at least one engine failure in the U.S. as well.

The engine in the "Blue Meany" - the star of most of the videos in this thread - failed in mid to late May after experiencing detonation

Original post ... more info at the Blue Meany Blog

Unlike the European ones which had snapped conrods, this one had a broken ringland, and the conrods were fine.

It really sounds like the Sniper tuning solution is far from perfect, and the aussie-built XEDE is a better solution for now.
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby CoffeeBoss » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:21 am

Well, it seems all this has lead to Cosworth themselves doing a lot of back pedaling and 'unadvertising' on their website!

http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/vie ... roduct=363

Cosworth USA wrote:System requirements:
-Installation time 12-14 hours depending on skill level.
-A lap top (PC) along with basic computer skills is required for ECU re-flash.
-Must use at least premium 91 octane (R+M)/2 fuel.
Precautions:
The Cosworth MX5 Supercharger system is currently available for vehicles sold only in North America. Using this product on vehicles sold in other regions is not recommended.
-Not for use on vehicles with automatic transmissions
-For off-road racing use only.
-Do not drive at sustained high speeds. Engine damage may occur.
-Not for sale or use on pollution controlled motor vehicles sold in the state of California.
-Excessive boost pressure will cause engine failure.
-Repeated activation of the RPM limited will cause engine damage.
-The car should be dríven by shifting the transmission below 6500 RPMs.
-Your car must be equipped with an oil cooler. Do not install the supercharger kit unless your car has an oil cooler. Engine damage will occur.
-Cosworth Supercharger kits are designed for engines in good mechanical condition only. Installation on high mileage or damaged engines is not recommended and may result in engine failure, in which we are not responsible. Cosworth is not responsible for the engine or consequential damages.
-Superchargers add tremendous stress and wear to your engine and may cause engine failure or damage. Cosworth is not responsible for engine, vehicle or any other subsequent damage.
-If you are considering purchasing this system and have questions, please contact Cosworth at sales@cosworth.com


Haha! So, hey everyone, we've developed a factory-style performance enhancement for your NC. Oh, one thing though, don't use the extra performance in case it goes bang. Which it might. In fact, probably best if you drive it like, not as hard as when you didn't have the supercharger in there. Annd only on race tracks, of course.

Seems to me they should have sorted out the tuning in-house and charged more for the 'kit'. Have a reliable base upgrade that people can then fettle with if they don't mind the risk.

As seen on Russ' GT Roadster Blog:
http://gt-roadster.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... ising.html

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby moo moo nel » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:44 am

what a joke

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CoffeeBoss
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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby CoffeeBoss » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:13 pm

zombie wrote:It really sounds like the Sniper tuning solution is far from perfect, and the aussie-built XEDE is a better solution for now.


From the reading i have been doing on Miata.net, this is very much the case.

Of course, you have to wade through pages and pages and pages of 'oh, this is what you get' and 'this is riduculous, i can't believe Cosworth is blah blah' and 'it's there fault' and 'turbochargers are better' and 'no there not' and 'what would you know' and so on. It's rather amusing. Particularly when most of the trolling is between people who have read about these mods, and those who have done them.

Anyhow, the main debate seems to centre around Corky Bell (who is on those forums) and BEGI, who have i think 3 or 4 customer's with their turbo kit on the NC. They are using the XEDE and having no issues whatsoever. Then there is the Cosworth crowd, claiming that Cosworth's stuff is better then BEGI, and the problem there exists with the Sniper/Delta Force tune, but then there's also those saying that the Sniper/Delta product is still better than the XEDE...

However Corky and the gang seem to be the only ones making reliable horsepower out of the LFVE engine in the NC using the simple principals of good, safe tuning. From reading those forums, the turbo cars currently come out in front. But even by their estimation it is still somewhat early days for forced induction in the NC. Mainly on account of the fact that neither XEDE nor Delta Force have completly opened up all the parameters in the factory ECU.

There are also a couple of aftermarket ECU options in Japan, it turns out, but they are also very limited in scope - remove speed limiter (doesn't exist on export cars anyhow), raise revs by 500rpm.

Still, as THIS LINK shows, the basics of the LFVE engine are sound - if you've got the money and expertise, 800hp is possible :D

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby Moto » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:15 am

So is it not possible to run a full aftermarket computer on the NC? Do they have to be a piggyback?

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Cosworth supercharger for the NC

Postby orx626 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:31 am

Moto wrote:So is it not possible to run a full aftermarket computer on the NC? Do they have to be a piggyback?


You can, but you will lose your ABS, DSC, immobiliser....as the ECU needs to talk to the other control modules via a CAN BUS circuit. That is why piggyback units are the go. Some people are getting close to cracking the standard ECU code to allow reprogramming without losing the standard functionality.

Cheers,
Danny


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