wolf v5,89 na6 to a 99 nb6 motor wiring sensors ect

[bpt4w]

Ok i know we didn't get the nb6 here in oz but here is a few things i am doing so i can wire it all up to the wolf v5 (it should work for any configurable computer and the 1.8's).

the new engine has a reluctor style crank angel sensor so this will have to be wired in since i can't use the old cam angle sensor from the 89 since the camshaft ends are different between 89-99 and the new engine has solid lifters and not hydrolic lifters (so the cam lobes should be different as well). This is not a big thing since you only have to move the sensor wiring from the back of the head to the front of the engine and tell the computer to look for a different signal type ( i hope it goes as easily as it sounds) .

As for the cam sensor that i have spare (i have the one that pokes out the front of the cam cover) i think i will just change the cam covers over and not use that signal since i intend to use adjustable cam gears later anyway.

The newer oil pressure sensor is the crappy one that has the on/off oil sensing so its in the bin and on goes the old one with the proper variable sensing.

there is a knock sensor on the side of the new engine and i hope to rig up a sensor to light/buzzer for tuning , unfortunately the wolf doesn't provide for this feature.

the new engine also comes with the newer style idle control with out the big pipe coming of the front so I'm hoping its a simple thing to just plug in and watch it work.

if you have some advice for me or just want to ask a Q post it up.

[Okibi]

i *think* the NB6 ecu controls the alternator, you might need to swap in an NA8 alternator.

[bpt4w]

Ah you are right , off to get a new $300 alternator (or if you are able to find it a secondhand one)

ok that is in and fits nice too.

oops almost forgot , the 1989 1.6 cam/crank angle sensor puts out two signals one for the crank and one for the cam (or sync signal) , which is a white wire and a blue/yellow stripe wire respectively (you can find them easily looking on the back of the sensor plug and then into the computer) .
So this means that i will for now wire the front cam sensor up to keep both these signals for now, so as to make it easier on me to get the car going again.

funnily enough the wiring isn't that much different in the sensor department between the 89 and the 99 except for a few extra sensors and the injectors are now sequencial.

using the 90 and the 2000 wiring diagrams from here http://www.madracki.com/miata/wiring.html helped a lot.

will post the changes i had to make to the wolf ignition values when/if i get it going

[bpt4w]

update , the car has been wired up with the reluctors as needed but with no reference on timing points for the computer it doesn't look like it will be easy as i thought. If anyone has some info for sync events ect on aftermarket computers please post it up.

[93_Clubman]

update , the car has been wired up with the reluctors as needed but with no reference on timing points for the computer it doesn't look like it will be easy as i thought. If anyone has some info for sync events ect on aftermarket computers please post it up.

If you haven't already, it might be worth asking the question on the UK MX5 forum as they got the NB6 there. Good to hear it coming along - best of luck!

[bpt4w]

thx for that , will do . Of late have had a attack of the lazy's while i purchase a unit up here in townsville so the money has been thrown on the back burner while i finalise that little item , then its back into getting the mx5 up and running.

Have figured out that the system will be seeing 4 reference events (4 teeth on the crank) and 1 sync event (cam sensor) per revolution now its just a matter of timing and hoping the system is seeing the reluctor signals correctly.

[devolutio]

oops almost forgot , the 1989 1.6 cam/crank angle sensor puts out two signals one for the crank and one for the cam (or sync signal) , which is a white wire and a blue/yellow stripe wire respectively (you can find them easily looking on the back of the sensor plug and then into the computer) .

I've been finding it hard to find good info on this - so the na6 are all an optical sensor putting out a 5v square wave? and there is definitely a reference and a sync wire (ie: reference will be rising or falling edge of the square wave, 4 times a cycle / sync will be the once per cycle just before cyl 1 reference)? assuming all this is correct, does anyone know what the stock ecu listens to, rising or falling edge?

cheers.

[devolutio]

to answer a couple of my own questions:

from http://www.aus-cartalk.com/tech/MiataFuelandEngineElectronicSystemsInterchangeGuide.htm

" Cam Angle Sensor

The cam angle sensor was upgraded in 3/95 for the new ODBII electronics. The cam angle sensor mount and cam drive is the same from 1990-1997, what this means is that a 1.6 sensor can be used on a 94-97 1.8 engine for the purposes of a engine swap using the 90-3/95 ECU. Starting in 1999 the cam angle sensor is gone and replaced with a crank angle sensor mounted behind the crank pulley. The sensor versions are 90-3/95, 3/95-97, 99+

The '90-95.5 CAS differs in construction to the 95.5-97 CAS. Both are Hall Effect but the earlier CAS is an optical unit that reads holes punched in a disk while the later unit is magnetic based. In theory the later style is more accurate and offers potentially less spark scatter. In the Miata the ignition trigger signal rises 70 deg before each TDC (the 4 equal holes) and uses the other two to determine cylinders #1/4 and #2/3 (the primary and waste spark). "


It looks like being a wasted spark setup, and having two injector banks, the computer doesn't actually know which cylinder is firing out of the two that are getting spark. looking at the disc in the optical cas (na6) it gives the ecu 2 sync signals. if you didn't mind not being able to run a stock ecu, covering (filling or whatever works) one of those reference points and adding two wires to make all the injectors independent would give you sequential injection.

picture borrowed from http://www.miatapower.com/cas.htm

[bpt4w]

yep that pretty much what i found , the 99+ is a reluctor sensor behind the crank and on the front of the cam and is usually set for a falling signal, the hall effect sensors on the 89-99 are usually a rising setup.

Reluctors seem to be the way mazda is going mainly due to cost i think since the hall effect sensors were robust and reliable but expensive (talking a million cars here), unfortunately the reluctor engine is a set in its ways of timing and can only be adjusted with a bit of engineering of the sensor mounts or going to after market ignition to adjust timing (delays the firing of the coil).

Now if mx5 mania had their adaptronic (was only just being played with then)when i bought my wolf v5 i would probably be using the adaptronic since it is quite a smart little system and as the name says adaptable.

THE CAR , well finally found a dyno in townsville that can play with the car (they won't let me do the computer on their dyno) and hopefully will have a final tune in a week or so.

[Okibi]

I'm surprised that a vendor hasn't released a 10" timing advance replacement crank plate. Isn't it just a laser cut disc with some magnets?

[bpt-4w]

ach never if you can help it let a mechanic learn to tune a computer , i have been showing him how to do the tuning on the wolf , its getting to the point that the next time i want something done i will just send it to sydney

[devolutio]

I've plugged in the wolf today and i'm having trouble getting good signals from the cas to the wolf... seems the pick up the sync signal when the signal is set to 'very low' - i measured the voltage and it looks like it's gonig from 0v to 1v - not what i expected.

Checking the plug going to the CAS there are 4 wires - a ground, a 12v (gets this with ignition on, not from ecu), then the two signal wires. those two wires read 0v when the wolf ecu is connected (obviously, as they are inputs) - but reading some cas tests a way of testing to make sure the wiring is all correct with factory ecu, is to check those two wires at cas plug, and they should both have 5v.

so the factory ecu supplies 5v to both those wires and the CAS pulls them to ground? I'm guessing this is all taken care of with the plug and play wolf, but i'm wiring mine in from scratch, does that mean i have to supply 5v from the wolf (or from a regulator or seomthing) to those wires?

any help appreciated. I don't think i have any hair left to work this out on my own after spending the day chasing what turned out to be dry joints in a lpg controller on a slant 6 valiant. arghh!

edit: found some info.

http://rivercityroad.com/garage/cas_testing.htm

[bpt-4w]

that wiring diagram looks good and yes 5v supposed to be there , only thing i can think of is the wiring is wrong , um might help if we new which version wolf you have since the version 4 is diffrent to version 5 is some aspects.

[bpt-4w]

k thank god the mechanic i took it to learned fast and is a reasonable guy (didn't charge me money when he was learning only when he was making progress) , so it ends up that the crank angle sensor plate on the front of the 99 1.6 has pins that were not 90 degrees even spacing and only 2 were 180 degrees apart showing the computer a bad signal (the other two were interfering with the computer and confusing it) so the two bad ones were given the chop , the same was done with the cam angle sensor which had two many pins for the wolf and so now the car runs like it did before (good but with lots of black smoke pwr tune), so the car will hopefully do a stint on the dyno tomorrow and i finally get it back.

now this mod will work for all the 1.8's up to 2002 which is where the vvt kicks in and you will have to sort that one out (i will try maybe in a few years), people with the variable intakes will require the computer to use one of its outputs to activate the valve and tune accordingly.

will take a few photo's of the wiring i have rigged for the conversion of the old wiring to the new sensors when i get it back.

[93_Clubman]

now this mod will work for all the 1.8's up to 2002 which is where the vvt kicks in and you will have to sort that one out (i will try maybe in a few years), people with the variable intakes will require the computer to use one of its outputs to activate the valve and tune accordingly.

will take a few photo's of the wiring i have rigged for the conversion of the old wiring to the new sensors when i get it back.

thanks for sharing & look fwd to the pics - good to hear you're making progress