newb question: suspension/shock combo suggestions?

doogle · Postby **doogle** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:29 pm

hey guys,
for a while i've been wanting to lower my NA a bit. i will have 16" wheels, and was hoping to put on some 'low' king springs which is 3cm lower right? (can this be done, will it still fit?!)
i read another thread that suggested the standard shocks won't last long with these lowered springs. so since i have no idea the age of my current ones, i ought to replace these too.

though i wish i could go all out with coilovers etc, i can't. wondering what the next level up from the standard shocks would be, and if the kings are the best option for this combo... open to debate!

thanks in advance

philz · Postby **philz** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:42 am

budget?

There are some Tein basic coilovers going for $1000 on ebay, which is just ridiculous cheap for BRAND new.

Even new lowered springs + koni adjustables or agx shocks will be more expensive, and will be inferior to the Teins.

If you are on a budget, just look out for used spring + shock combos on the forum.

But as said, what is your budget?

Slugoid · Postby **Slugoid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:49 am

Never really liked King low springs, even when I had them mated with Koni yellow shocks. If you go King lows and standard shocks, the shocks will go in no time and I can imagine the ride will be horrible with that setup.

If you want to lower it and not ruin the handling, my suggestion would be KYB AGX or Koni Yellow shocks mated with good springs like Eibach pro kit. I've even heard of good results with Koni yellow and standard spring setup. Will cost a little over a grand to do it, but you get the satisfaction on improved handling as well as car being lowered.

philz wrote:budget?

There are some Tein basic coilovers going for $1000 on ebay, which is just ridiculous cheap for BRAND new.

Even new lowered springs + koni adjustables or agx shocks will be more expensive, and will be inferior to the Teins.

If you are on a budget, just look out for used spring + shock combos on the forum.

But as said, what is your budget?

Bad thing about the Tein basic is that it's only ride height adjustable with no damper adjustment. I'm also certain that they will be US spec, so they are 7kg/6kg front/rear, which are pretty hard compared with the 6kg/5kg on the Aus spec Tein SS. The basic seems to have the same springs as the US spec Tein SS and with no adjustability. So god knows what rate the Basic dampers are set to :shock:

. With that setup, you'd need to have a thicker front swaybar or else it'll have too much oversteer. I had Aus spec Tein SS in my previous NA6 and I needed a thicker front sway.

I would stay away from the basic personally, due to the high spring rates and no adjustability, and go for the KYB/Koni shocks and softer springs.

Edit: just realised fulcrum suspensions released the Aus spec Basic coilovers. If it's $900 for Aus spec Basic's, then I might give them a go. They did a good job tuning the Tein SS coilovers, so I'm sure they would have done a good job with the Basic's.

philz · Postby **philz** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:02 am

Tein Basic and SS are soft, and aus spec are just too soft.

7/6 is nothing, try 10/8 it's killer.

But hey that's just me.

AB7 · Postby **AB7** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:17 am

For budget performance, you can go past KYB AGX & Kings.
IMO Eibach is just not worth the extra $$$.

Jeo · Postby **Jeo** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:23 am

AB7 wrote:For budget performance, you can go past KYB AGX & Kings

How much are we looking at for a set?

I assume mine is still running the standard Bilsteins, which with 120,000kms on the clock now should be due for replacement.
My ride is reasonably harsh at the moment, not that I mind all that much, but would that be due to my suspension being worn out or are the Bilsteins that hard normally? (sorry for the hijack Doogle

)

AB7 · Postby **AB7** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:10 pm

Quite a few forum member here bought it off EBAY USA for less than $580 shipped. Thats when our $$$ was in 90 cents region. I remember paying all up with my kings for less than $800 all up

I think its cheaper to buy it locally now for around $850...plus kings for around $250.
I guess its cheaper these days to buy that Tein Basic set but its not adjustable (damping wise) but then again its height adjustable whereas KYB is not.

OK, maybe that Tein basic is the best bang for your bucks option now

philz · Postby **philz** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:22 pm

AB7 wrote:OK, maybe that Tein basic is the best bang for your bucks option now

Which was my point :wink:

Unless you want to try those new Koni STRT shock+spring, but I haven't really heard that good of a review.

Slugoid · Postby **Slugoid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:54 pm

philz wrote:Tein Basic and SS are soft, and aus spec are just too soft.

7/6 is nothing, try 10/8 it's killer.

But hey that's just me.

Well my daily + track NA6 had Aus spec SS and I though it was just right. Any stiffer and I would have a sore ass. But for track, yes, I did feel that it could be stiffer, but as a car also used daily I thought it was a decent compromise.

Just my personal experience.

doogle · Postby **doogle** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:16 pm

thanks for the advice so far... my budget would be 'as least as possible' - perhaps around the $1k to 1.5k mark (if i have to pay someone to install)..

after reading up and looking around on prices (ebay) i guess i'm leaning towards the kyb agx shocks and some low kings..

another newb question: is installation DIY-able? i have a haynes manual but no knowledge of that area of the car

...

grump · Postby **grump** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:34 pm

doogle wrote:thanks for the advice so far... my budget would be 'as least as possible' - perhaps around the $1k to 1.5k mark (if i have to pay someone to install)..

after reading up and looking around on prices (ebay) i guess i'm leaning towards the kyb agx shocks and some low kings..

another newb question: is installation DIY-able? i have a haynes manual but no knowledge of that area of the car ...

Doogle, Diy is more than doable for the newbie. I have NB,KYB AGX with king lows on my NA. The advantage of using NB shocks on an NA is the fact that you get about 1.5 cm more travel, by using the NB top hats. The ride height is about 30 mm lower than standard. I am really happy with the ride, and got my KYB's of Ebay in AUS for $380 delivered, brand new.
The option of 4 way dampening adjustment is an advantage. I run them on the softest setting for normal driving and the hardest for the track. In my opinion the KYB AGX and King lows are a good combination.
The are plenty of people on this forum that could point you in the right direction for installation, otherwise you are looking at around $600 including a wheel alignment.

doogle · Postby **doogle** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:30 am

hey grump, thanks for the advice. what size wheels do you have? is there enough clearance by the wheel arch/does it fill it nicely? (i'm planning to have 16" but potentially can get 15"...)
$380 delivered!! thats awesome.... all i could find on ebay were ones from the us which start from about $620AUD and like $100USD postage... guess i'll keep looking for that bargain.
never considered using NB shocks, but (sorry yet another newb question) what do you mean by '1.5cm more travel'?

thanks!

Slugoid · Postby **Slugoid** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:19 am

doogle wrote:hey grump, thanks for the advice. what size wheels do you have? is there enough clearance by the wheel arch/does it fill it nicely? (i'm planning to have 16" but potentially can get 15"...)
$380 delivered!! thats awesome.... all i could find on ebay were ones from the us which start from about $620AUD and like $100USD postage... guess i'll keep looking for that bargain.
never considered using NB shocks, but (sorry yet another newb question) what do you mean by '1.5cm more travel'?
thanks!

Not sure if you can get $380 delivered now with the poor exchange rate. $620 sounds about right considering it's now 64c to the aud, and at it's peak at 95c.

As for more travel, it means the distance the shocks can go until it's fully compressed. By using the NB top hats as mentioned, there would be more travel and less likely to hit the bumpstops and bottom out. It was a little problem with NA's and there were a number of ways to combat it, either by changing to shorter aftermarket bumpstops or different top hats.

grump · Postby **grump** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:36 am

doogle wrote:hey grump, thanks for the advice. what size wheels do you have? is there enough clearance by the wheel arch/does it fill it nicely? (i'm planning to have 16" but potentially can get 15"...)
$380 delivered!! thats awesome.... all i could find on ebay were ones from the us which start from about $620AUD and like $100USD postage... guess i'll keep looking for that bargain.
never considered using NB shocks, but (sorry yet another newb question) what do you mean by '1.5cm more travel'?
thanks!

Doggle, I got mine of a company in Adelaide that had 2 sets at the time. Another forumite grabbed the second set, that was last November.
I run 16" wheels with 205/ 45 ,and +45 offset. don't have any issues. they are a cheap Bob Jane rim that weigh 6.5 kg, so not a bad weight.
Your other alternative to NB Shocks is to use Fatcat motorsports bumpstops on the NA shocks. Tbro has them on his clubbie and swears by them.

tbro · Postby **tbro** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 am

Jeo wrote:
AB7 wrote:I assume mine is still running the standard Bilsteins, which with 120,000kms on the clock now should be due for replacement.
My ride is reasonably harsh at the moment, not that I mind all that much, but would that be due to my suspension being worn out or are the Bilsteins that hard normally? (sorry for the hijack Doogle )

Doogle and Jeo,

Billy's work well with upgraded springs and Fatcatmotorsport bump stops, I have these is my clubby with the NB top hat mod and the car rides and handles perfectly.
Dunno how much to do it now but certainly worth looking at as mine ended up costing approx $700 with adjustable perches.

Just another option.

Terry