Braking performance of an SE. My SJ Camira stopped quicker.

[MikeyK]

While this may sound strange, I have a stock standard 2004 SE Turbo purchased as an ex dealer demonstrator (I have owned this for three years now). At the same time for a few months I drove a 1984 SJ Camira (owned it for 14 years). Now the SJ Camira was no comparison to the SE except for straight line stopping power. I have half a dozen people who have dríven with me in both cars that can vouch for that. Many said that the SJ had serious stopping power. It was also stock except for quality pads and tyres.

My question to other SE owners is have they noticed the ABS engaging under hard braking? I have had the odd incident where either cars decided to cut me off or just drive into my lane while I was next to them. Under brakes the ABS cuts in and doesn't stop as brutally as the old SJ of mine.

I know the 17" wheels don't seem to like bumpy roads and that may be some reason why the ABS engages earlier.

MX5 SE uses standard 205x17x40 tyres
tyres include:
original TOYO Vimode
Dunlop Le Mans
Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
I originally ran standard tyre pressures for over one year. 29 PSI front, 32 PSI back. I now run higher tyre pressures than standard because I wear the tyre walls early. 32 PSI front, 35 PSI rear. Neither tyre pressure improves braking significantly.

SJ Camira used standard 195x14x60 tyres
tyres included:
Bridgestone RE77 - these stopped very quick
Barum (not sure which ones) - not as quick as the RE77 but still better then the SE.

So, is it tyre selection? Suspension setup? Tyre pressure? Brake pads? Brake fade is not an issue as I do not race.

[wun911]

who has the larger rotor the SE or the Camira?
who has the calipers with more clamping force?
who weighs more?

[MikeyK]

who has the larger rotor the SE or the Camira?
who has the calipers with more clamping force?
who weighs more?

who has the larger rotor the SE or the Camira?
I don't recall the SE disks looking larger than the Camira. The Camira had 14 inch alloys so it may just be an illusion.

who has the calipers with more clamping force?
Camira had one large piston for front disks, drum brakes on rear. No idea of clamping force.

who weighs more?
Camira - 1054 Kg
SE - 1122 Kg

[Hellmun]

I believe you'll find all 3 go to the MX5 there Wun.

The rotors are smaller on the camira, the rear brakes are drums not disc's and the camira will actually weigh less. My daily driver is a JE camira and that is relatively stripped out (last time it was on weight station a few years ago it was 930kg's).

The braking system on the camira is not even relatively close to the mx5.... So I'd say there something wrong with your SE's brakings system. I'm hoping you've actually quantified that the SJ pulled up in a shorter distance rather than just feeling like it did?
My camira has standard springs/shocks that have somewhere past the ballpark of 460,000km's on them. So when braking hard you get some MASSIVE dive. Especially with the camira's weight distribution making it very nose heavy. It will feel more exciting braking but it won't come anynear my mx5 in distance.

Best advice is grab someone with any Mx5 2001 onwards (NB8B+ all have the same brake package including SE's/SP's) and go for a brake.

[Alex]

so your comment isn't really about the braking force it's about the ABS taking control too early?

Alright work was boring, so here a link
Info on bleeding the ABS system as well
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=32652

[MikeyK]

Well I cannot present stopping distance as I no longer own the Camira but my statement was based on judgement of braking distance in the CBD. Generally 50 Kmph or slower. I am a late braker when late for work. At highway speeds (or beyond if the Camira could reach those speeds), the SE brakes better without a doubt as the drum brakes on the Camira would lock up under hard braking. That's not safe.

I have had the SE since new and it's always been serviced at the Mazda dealer I bought the car from. Eagers Mazda at Newstead. The brakes don't feel spongy and have not deteriorated since I first purchased it. In my opinion they work fine as most company cars I have dríven. I now have 33,000 Km on the odometer, it's just run in from mainly city driving. Last service they said I still had about 25% remaining on the PADs.

I find when I am close to stopping the ABS appears to engage earlier than I would have expected. Then again, this is the first car I have owned with ABS. The Camira would pull up slightly harder at slow speeds before the wheels started to squeal or lock up. Yet the SE does not seem to get to that point. Don't get me wrong, the SE stops quick. But somehow I expected better at these slow speeds. I had adjusted my driving to factor this since I first bought the car.

Most importantly, under most braking scenarios, the Camira was no match for the SE. Nooo Wayyy. The SE feels much more poised when braking under the more extreme conditions.

Next time I get the SE serviced I will ask them to check the ABS but I think they might say if I am braking that hard, I am not driving safely.

[Craig]

MX5 SE uses standard 205x17x40 tyres
tyres include:
original TOYO Vimode
Dunlop Le Mans
Dunlop SP Sport Maxx

You have different tyres all round?

Also if you have an original tyres it's going to be stale surely, my first NB8B had 4 stock tyres on it and they looked new at 28,000klms 4 years later on, but were as dicey as!

[blackster]

If you really believe its an ABS issue, drive someone else's SE and see if it performs the same way.

Things to check for

Uneven pad wear? Seized slider
Brake Fluid? (OEM SE stuff goes off with time). Flush with ingnition switch on, as it opens the ABS valve in the motor unit and it should expell any air into the lines if present.
Fluid type? I found that my brakes were more responsive with Dot 4 as opposed to 5. Currently using: Motul RBF600
Pads? Hawk HPP out perform the OEM SE pads

[Fuzzlet]

The brakes on my SE felt rather soft when I first got it. After changing the brake fluid and putting in some decent pads its better, but when I put some new tyres on it we'll see how it goes (Tyres are 4 years old with 33k on them)

[Mr_Q]

... the ABS engaging under hard braking? I have had the odd incident where either cars decided to cut me off or just drive into my lane while I was next to them. Under brakes the ABS cuts in and doesn't stop as brutally as the old SJ of mine.

Sounds like the ABS is doing what it should. It's not supposed to launch you out of your seat - it's meant to slow the car down safely and let you maintain control.

It's always a good idea to check pads/fluid/etc., but if the ABS is kicking in under hard braking then it's working correctly.

[MikeyK]

You have different tyres all round?

Also if you have an original tyres it's going to be stale surely, my first NB8B had 4 stock tyres on it and they looked new at 28,000klms 4 years later on, but were as dicey as!

Sorry, poorly stated.
Presently have Dunlop Le Mans front, Dunlop SP Sport Maxx Rear. They were rotated last service. I wore out two of the original TOYO Vimode tyres on the left side edge after 17,000 Km (November 2006 when two Dunlop Le Mans were fitted). I was told probably due to a combination of a slight wheel alignment issue and running standard tyre pressures during spirited cornering (is there any other way when it's safe?).

The Dunlop SP Sport Maxx were fitted at 24,000 Km (October 2007). There was little left of the remaining original tyres then.

It did not seem to matter what tyres were on the front, in the dry the braking was much the same. But in the wet, I just drive more sedately.

[MikeyK]

If you really believe its an ABS issue, drive someone else's SE and see if it performs the same way.

Things to check for

Uneven pad wear? Seized slider
Brake Fluid? (OEM SE stuff goes off with time). Flush with ingnition switch on, as it opens the ABS valve in the motor unit and it should expell any air into the lines if present.
Fluid type? I found that my brakes were more responsive with Dot 4 as opposed to 5. Currently using: Motul RBF600
Pads? Hawk HPP out perform the OEM SE pads

Well Mazda do all the servicing so I just drive the car. I looked through my service history and noticed that the brake fluid was replaced during the 40,000Km/2Year service (actually 21,000 Km on the June 2007). So about 18 months ago. I am not sure of the dot rating though. All the invoice describes is Brake Fluid with a number of NGR139A.

I still have the original brake pads though.

[MikeyK]

Sounds like the ABS is doing what it should. It's not supposed to launch you out of your seat - it's meant to slow the car down safely and let you maintain control.

It's always a good idea to check pads/fluid/etc., but if the ABS is kicking in under hard braking then it's working correctly.

I agree, ABS is definitely an improvement over none. Much more controlled. Can actually steer under full braking. Now that used to be foreign to me. Just looking for that extra bit of stopping power though.

[Mr Morlock]

I find it very hard to believe that a Camira would even be remotely comparable. Our recollections of times gone past including cars is notoriously unreliable. Your car has only been dríven around the block. MX5's are stopping very effectively all around Aust without having to change anything from standard. I very rarely activate the ABS as this is not supposed to happen under normal driving conditions. ABS allows people to drive around a problem or stop rather than lock up and spin out of control. If you are doubtful about braking performance it should be checked by a competent specialist/ dealer etc or see if you can drive another of the same model/year .

[MikeyK]

If you really believe its an ABS issue, drive someone else's SE and see if it

Always happy to compare cars. Anybody here is Brisbane?