AVO 1.6L - How much power did you make?

[rjr666]

Okay Ive installed my new avo kit, but am down on power from what I would have thought i would be getting (Prevous set up was making 152rwkw on a ol td0518G bush bearing turbo and greddy manifold) I havent changed anything at all, only the turbo, manifold and dump pipe.

Currently I only made 129rwkw on 15.55 psi (avo), last set up made 152rwkw on same boost as prevously mentioned, and Ive taken it back to the same dyno/tuner who did the last tune.

List as follows:
460cc GTR injectors
Walbro pump ( fuel pressure checked out okay)
Custom intercooler piping
Avo manifold and dump kit with 320hp garrett turbo GT28R .64 rear housing
Internals, forged pistons, arp studs ect, familia turbo rods shot peend.
microtec ecu

taking into consideration of dyno figures do vary somewhat, can some people post up what power they made on there 1.6L AVO kit?
Its got me conserned where Ive lost the power... the dump pipe looks pretty restrictive?

Thanks

[Benny]

Check your boost pressure sensor.

I had a similar problem with my SP and with a new sensor installed it went up from around 123RWKw to 155!

[Fatty]

i have a really old avo kit with a non bb gt25 turbo and a restrictive dumpipe, and i'm making just over 100 rwkw on 7psi. you should be making a fair bit more, i think they redesigned the dump pipe but maybe it still isn't very good? i dunno.

[Boags]

It is likely that same boost on smaller turbo makes less power.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion...

That is a common mis-conception. PSI is PSI. Theoretically, at the same boost level (at the inlet manifold) for different turbos you still have x amount of air. Amount of air + fuel + timing advance = power.

Efficiency of the turbo and piping is what will effect power the most; and it's unlikely that different turbos will have identical efficiencies. In fact, smaller turbos are usually more efficient, they need less exhaust gas to spool them up etc.

rjr: are you reading the boost at the turbo or at the manifold? Poor manifold or dp flow will certainly drop your numbers and cause lag.

My 2c; open to critisism of course.

[4sfed5]

\"psi is psi\"

that's not correct...a turbo systems power is directly related to the turbine inlet pressure (the pressure between the piston on the exhaust stroke and the turbine)....the engine itself is redundant to the equation. if you have a larger more free flowing turbine section then the T.I.P will be less and therefore you make more power.Effectively the turbo compressor is pushing against its own turbine wheel

imagine filling a bucket with water that has a hole in it...the hole is the turbine and the water level in the bucket is \"boost psi\"....the larger the hole in the bucket, the more water in (flow) you need to keep the water level (Boost)the same.

a larger turbo will make more power due to the fact that the turbine is bigger and will flow more and thus the T.I.P will be less at all boost levels

[Boags]

the engine itself is redundant to the equation.

This doesn't make sense (and its the part that shoots my logic to pieces), so I will read up on it.

Happy to stand corrected as always.

[AL]

Maybe a leak in the intercooler pipework. Check all your clamps, idle bypass,blow-off valve etc. You should be getting around 170-180 killer wasps.

[Russellb]

The same turbo on a 1.8 AVO manifold with no cooler I made 140 KW.
What size is your eexhaust System ?
For every PSI of back pressure you loss a PSI of boost. Yes you can make the boost back but ther is always a loss of power by doing it.

FYI my old mans 1.6 turbo using AVO manifold and Dump pipe (has small head wrk and cams) make over 200 kw estimated not proven yet

[FMS01]

AVO stage 3 on 1.6.
143RWKW at 13.5 PSI

Cheers,
Julian

[kula]

a small turbo pumping out 15psi will be a lot hotter than a big turbo pumping out 15psi into the same engine.

cool air = power.

[Sheck]

AVO = weak
yea power is wayy too low.
The TD05 18g turbo's are very good, bush bearing yes but all the parts in there (at least the GReddy/turst versions) are light and small which means fast spool and low life expectancy (but cheap-ish to fix) many turst turbos are comparable or arguably better than the BB garret versions of similar rating.

Post a pic of the dump, i have a feeling its too restrictive, and hows the rest of your exhaust?? size type of cat, number of bends mandrel or not etc.

4sfed5 said size = flow not psi = flow.
I was under the impression that turbos all have their own effeciency ranges, ie a small turbo in its peak effieciency would make more overall power (not peak), than a larger turbo outside is effieciency. <- this turbo would make same or more peak power but not as good overall power range.

Same tuner suggests (if he's good) that it is something to do with your car and not the dyno conditions, if its run in shootout mode then it \"should\" read the same every time, unless your car changes.

I'm not a huge fan of AVO manifolds, anyone whos asked me will know, they are cast, but their flow path only looks marginly better than the crappy greddy manifold (what i'm running). But yea they do make descent power cause its such a short path from head to turbo, keeps all the heat in aids spool etc

What did your tuner think? Surely he'd have a few ideas??
The turbos sound like their in the same power range, so similar power should be there.

[ampz]

Any more info on the 2 turbos?
What compressor housing are you running on the Garret?

Maybe it is smaller that the previous turbo.

What is the difference in dump pipes?

The avo being cast would have a smaller internal diameter than a tube dump pipe (granted the greddy one is the most restrictive one ever, but it is hard to know if that is what was on before) hell even a chinese ebay one flows better than a cast (it won't last long though).

[bruce]

About a billion variables.

Give it to the experts and ask them what is wrong.

[marky210]

I had an AVO kit for a NB8A consisting of:
Garrett BB/GT28 -320-350HP
AVO Cast dump pipe
AVO Front pipe
AVO FMIC with AVO full silicon piping
Link turbolink ecu running a single extra injector.

I purchased this AVO kit and brought the AVO manifold for the 1.6 and installed it on my NA6 1.6 along with a 2.5 inch mandrell bent exhaust and highflow cat.
I took the car to AVO and had Terry willson tune it for me and we got 140kw at the wheels on 9psi and a sh*t load of torque. He said there was alot more in it but i needed to change injectors as mine were on the limit.
With the turbo link you can run up to 4 extra injectors which is what im gunna be doing on my Nb8a

You should be making alot more power than what you are off your AVO kit.

Mark

[Boags]

With the turbo link you can run up to 4 extra injectors which is what im gunna be doing on my Nb8a

Why don't you just run bigger injectors?