Lifter noise

Disco · Postby **Disco** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:52 pm

Hi All,

I know there's been a few mentions of this in the past so sorry to create a new thread about it - anyways:

My NA6 with '96 1.8 has intermittently noisy lifters that I just can't seem to get rid of. I've changed the plugs, the oil (Magnatec) and added Lifter Free but the short duration of any improvement is getting even shorter. It always rattles on startup and the only common denominator seems to be ambient temperature - the colder, the noisier. Even after a hot start they will rattle away for quite a while. Also last night after a warm start it would just rattle and seems now to have issues ticking over (Motec M4 and big fuel pump could be the issue there).

Anyone got any other ideas or is it time to start pulling heads off?

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:25 pm

You could try a thinner bottom end of the oil. 5W30 Castrol Edge synthetic took out 90% of it on my NA8. Even 0W40 is worth a thought.

Steampunk · Postby **Steampunk** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:11 pm

I think we all have had lifter noise to some extent, and the reason why I have been loyal to Castrol is because their lubricants virtually emilinated it, or at the least reduced it significantly.
I don't think the viscosity helps, and if it does, I would think a thicker oil would do a better job.

If your problem persists and its ticking for minutes on end (which sounds like it does), I would say something is loose and needs tightening/adjusting.

Disco · Postby **Disco** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:22 pm

Thanks guys - and yes, definately minutes these days. Sometimes 10-15, then back at it for 30 secs after switched off and on...

Bloody embarassing apart from anything else...!

That's not to stop anyone else putting there 2 cents in

Steampunk · Postby **Steampunk** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:35 pm

OH! anymore than 1 minute is concerning....but 10-15 definitely sounds alarm bells for me.

Hopefully it's not complicated and just a matter of tightening this and that, and you can get to all the bits from the top of the engine

CT · Postby CT » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:57 pm

Just take the cam cover off with it cold and see if any of the lifters are not in contact with the cam lobes - dead set giveaway that you have a failed lifter if one is not touching. Then replace just that one. If you tie the cam belt to the cam wheels and be very careful, it's simple R&R without too much disassembly.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:24 pm

1red5 wrote:I think we all have had lifter noise to some extent, and the reason why I have been loyal to Castrol is because their lubricants virtually emilinated it, or at the least reduced it significantly.
I don't think the viscosity helps, and if it does, I would think a thicker oil would do a better job.

If your problem persists and its ticking for minutes on end (which sounds like it does), I would say something is loose and needs tightening/adjusting.

SAE wrote:The SAE classifications characterizes the viscosity at low and high temperature of the lubricant. The grade is given by two numbers separated by the letter W (meaning winter).

The first number, followed by W represents the low temperature viscosity, 5W, 10W, 15W... the lower this number, the more fluid at low temperature the oils, the easier the engine starts.

The second number gives the high temperature viscosity: 30, 40, 50. The higher this number, the more viscous the oil when hot.

HLA noise will happen when starting from cold when:
a) your engine is having trouble pumping oil up to the HLAs, either because it's too thick there are or there are some other pumping gremlins, or
b) HLAs are stuffed, as CT suggests.

Using a thicker low temp grade usually exacerbates HLA noise.

Locutus · Postby **Locutus** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:01 pm

Sasso wrote:How come the oil gets thicker when it gets hot, ie the second number is more viscous, wouldn't it get thinner when it gets hot?

it gets thinner when hot. 10W40 means it's roughly the viscosity of a 10 weight oil at ambient, and roughly the viscosity of a 40 weight oil at operating temp.

note though, that a 10W40 dino oil is thicker than a 10W40 synth at ambient, but they are the same at operating temp.

Disco, i used to have chronic HLA noise very occasionally on a cold start - sometimes it went on for a couple of minutes! at last oil change i ran an engine flush and switched to 5W30 full synth (from 10W40 dino). HLA noise is down to less than 2 seconds now, when it does occur - which is still occasional.

Russellb · Postby **Russellb** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:22 pm

I too had Lifter noise on start up .
after a flush with cheep oil (10 KM driving and drain again) then switched to Penrite SIN 10 noise went away. now have 247000 Km on the clock and still going with no noise. ( the smoke is a different problem, LOT of Smoke when cold )

Disco · Postby **Disco** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:37 pm

guys thanks for all the advice. Got a better insight tonight though and not very welcome... hot or cold it rattles more than it doesnt. looks like I.ve got expense and time both of which I.m short of ahead of me. any further thoughts? excuse the grammer im on my mobile

tbro · Postby **tbro** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:59 pm

What brand of oil filter are you using.
Try using a genuine filter, as it sounds like you have a filter that is allowing the oil to drain back to the sump. a common problem with cheaper after market brands.
Its also cheaper than anything else you can try.
Terry.

Locutus · Postby **Locutus** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:04 am

sorry for the OT...

Sasso wrote:But isn't 10wt thinner than 40wt? if its 10 when cold and 40 when hot, then that means it gets thicker when hot, and that doesn't make sense. I'm lost.

yes, but 40wt at operating temp is thinner than 10wt at ambient temp