HP Engine Rebuild

[hamish71]

(Editted for calrity)
Hello,

I have posted a few things about engine blocks and cylinder heads recently, gathering information. I have a Dec '00 NB8B. It has a slightly bent crankshaft (result of loose woodruff key, thanks Mazda service!) Bend is noticeable, but does not affect operation. It is still my daily driver.

I have decided to go FI, and given that both the crankshaft is bent, and that it has has 140,000km on it, I am going to rebuild. I have a history of doing things properly, or not at all, hence, if I am going to rebuild, it will not be stock. Having not rebuilt an engine in about 10 yrs, I must say I have been a little shocked at the costs. Just to make sure I am not getting the bum steer, I thought I would post here for comment.

So, stock refresh of engine, including in/out - $4950
HP Rebuild -$11,150, breakdown as:
Crank/rods/pistons - $3,040.00
Head - Flow, polish, port, valves, springs, retainers $1,700.00
Head - Cams $2,090.00
Other work/parts $800.00
Labour $3,520.00

That seems extraordinary to me, given I can land the following engine spec for about $7500 from the USA.

Included in the HP rebuild is:

Blue Print Block (Clean, Mag, Bore, Deck, Line Hone, Clean)
Balance Rotating Assembly
HP Crankshaft Full Prep
H BEAM RODS
Performance Pistons 1.8L 83.50
HP Pins
HP Rings
HP Main Bearings
HP Rod Bearings
HP Thrust Bearing
ARP Main Stud Kits
High Volume (HV) Oil Pumps
Assemble Short Block

Port and Flow Head HP Valve Job
O/S Exhaust Valve
O/S Intake Valve
Supertech Spring kit
HP Cams
Adjustable Cam Gears
Lifter/Lasher Adjuster
Timing Belt Set
Full Gasket Set
MLS Head Gasket
ARP Head Studs



So, comments please? Is $11,150 or thereabouts the going rate in Melbourne? Is someone aware of a reputable builder who should do better than that?

[CT]

Unless you are building a full on race engine, you are wasting a lot of money. Half the stuff on that list is not necessary in a street engine - hell, most race engines don't even go that far. You would be better off just replacing your donk with a low mile import.

[16bit]

if thats the cost you would almost be better off getting a SR20 conversion kit and going down that road.

[Woo]

You'd probably be looking at good engine management, so add another 5 to that and your in the ballpark of my recent project.

You'll get a better deal on the base machine work from Tony @ speedworks (Ringwood) Ph. 98760600

Tell him Barry sent you and he'll do a good price. He does prefer if you source the parts (valves, gaskets, etc) but is very helpful when it comes to hard to find bits (NOx, head gaskets, shims).

Just on shims, Mazda quote $15.50 each so thats $124.00 +gst just to setup the cams to determine the shim required, then another $250 for the right shims. Tony can do them for $8 each (every little bit helps).

You might be better off using a good second hand motor for the rebuild to keep your car on the road during the 6 months it takes to build.

Good luck
Wòó

[PSI-JET]

Speak to Scott at James Race Engines, he built my B6T. He is reasonably priced and does excellent work.

www.engineaction.com

[bruce]

You are over-capitalising on the car.

It would be easier to get a low kay import motor, add turbo or quad-throttles (whichever takes your fancy) and have a more streetable package.

[Bevan]

You're up to $11.5k and you haven't even factored in the turbo, engine managemnt, or larger injectors. Strengthen the internals, put a turbo on, and add engine management. Unles you want to strain every last pony out of it, you don't need all the other crap.

[Mactype]

If you have the means, I'd be importing a ready built crate engine from flying Miata - least it would be a turnkey affair and you know the bits would be good.

pricing shouldn't be any worst that the quote you have either.

[Sean]

Might even be worth looking interstate.

I have had engines built for far less than that, granted they were not up to that sort of standard though.

Might also be worth talking to Jason at Top Tune in Sydney, he's built a few MX5 engines and I'm prety sure he built the HP NA engine for Babalouie on these forums, so maybe Babs can give him a wrap?

[Blue94t]

Give Randy at Nissco a call.
He is in Bayswater in Vic.
9761 4743.
He does a lot of preparation and maintenance on competition cars and I know quite a few people who are extremely happy with engines he has built for them.
That said, my stock NA8 has survived 45,000 boosted kms running up to 15 psi which it is set to currently. It makes ~160rwkw and is still going strong.
You can buy a lot of low km 2nd hand motors for $11.5k if you are not aiming for huge HP.
MX5 Drift Fury is currently making >190kw in his MX5 sports sedan using an internally standard engine. And that is through the 36mm inlet restrictor required for his class.
Jake

[hamish71]

Yep, That IS, a fully race prepped but streetable engine using a large quantity of FM parts. My point was that the prices I was quoted in Melbourne were NOT, for a full race prepped engine, but that I COULD get one from the USA, with far more work done, for far less.

Without meaning to be rude, if I didnt want to spend money on the car, I would leave it as is, and let it die, and then stick an import engine in it, as suggested. Nobody suggested playing with cars was a worthwhile investment. So, let me indulge my fantasies, and spend some money if I choose.

Thanks for the advise about Nissco and James Race Engines, I shall look them up.

[mr_rotary]

Have you looked at this?

http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=27347

[hamish71]

Yes, I have, and wish it would work. My engine, however, is a BPZ3.

[CT]

Yep, That IS, a fully race prepped but streetable engine using a large quantity of FM parts. My point was that the prices I was quoted in Melbourne were NOT, for a full race prepped engine, but that I COULD get one from the USA, with far more work done, for far less.

Without meaning to be rude, if I didnt want to spend money on the car, I would leave it as is, and let it die, and then stick an import engine in it, as suggested. Nobody suggested playing with cars was a worthwhile investment. So, let me indulge my fantasies, and spend some money if I choose.

Thanks for the advise about Nissco and James Race Engines, I shall look them up.

My friend, I think you may have missed the point. You don't need to do all those things to get a streetable, reliable boosted engine. Save most of your pennies and invest in the best engine management you can instead of buying the FM website - you'll be miles ahead in performance. But hey, if you don't want suggestions from people - some of whom have not only built engines but specifically BP engines, then don't bother asking for opinions - which you did.

I pay less than $1k for my engine builds.......plus parts of course so yep, you are getting reamed like there's no tomorrow. Don't forget, it aint a frickin chevy V8 where there is volume sales competition between parts makers - it's a low volume specialist engine which few engine builders would be lucky to see 1 every 12 months. That's why you will pay more.

I'm certainly not saying don't do it - but wouldn't you rather understand the alternatives.......

[hamish71]

The problem with using text, or forums to communicate, is that you cannot hear inflection, tone etc in order to understand the underlying intent.

I meant no disrespect, and I appreciate your advice. I do, which is why I asked for it.

However... give me some credit. It is not, the \"FM website\" in a block. The quote I obtained is from a friend of mine is the US, who does mainly nissans. We pulled together a package using \"a good quantity\" of FM parts, but also many others. He is the builder, not FM. I intend using a full Link System, so I have the ECU covered already.

Yes, it needs to be \"streetable\", but I frequently paricipate in hill climbs, currently in a 1953 MG. I would like to take the MX5 to competition. When I do so, I would like to be able to increase the hp from 160 ish, to 180-200ish. I also happen to own a company which will be able to use the vehicle as a marketting platform, hence there are \"financial advantages\" which reduce the personal cost of the project. A reason perhaps why I can afford to be a little extravagant. The other reason is personal taste. If I wanted the same as a lot of other people here, I would take my stock engine to AVO or similar, whack on a kit, and be done with it. I have no objections, about people doing that, it achieves its purpose, and I have done similar in the past. I WANT this to be different.
I will probably go the rotrex supercharger, for example, as a point of difference.

Now, with that background, the original question was meant to acheive advice on reputable engine builders, and their relative prices. I can see, given that I have 3 quotes in the vicinity of 10-11K, that I have asked the wrong people. If anyone can tell me who can build an engine for $1000 plus parts, I would be VERY interested.