Coilovers vs Shocks/Springs

bush_pig · Postby **bush_pig** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:52 pm

Hi all,

I am in the process of upgrading my suspension. Being as mechanically minded as most of your wives :oops:

I need a bit of advice.

From the reading that I have been doing I have decided to go with either the Tein SS coilover or the Koni / King. What are the advantages and disadvantages of coilovers compared to shocks with springs ? They will be going onto an NA6. I want a better, sexier ride - stiffen it up a bit and not have a 6 inch gap between the tyres and wheel arch !....

Any thoughts an opinions appreciated.

Caedrus · Postby **Caedrus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Bush_Pig,

If you are interested in a TEIN SS System, you should have a look at the fulcrum suspensions website.

They have a $215 cashback offer for this month only.

That $215 nicely covers the cost of installation at MX5 Mania, if you were to take the car to Sydney.

I would advise purchasing from a Fulcrum Distributor, as lots of TEIN units are sold set up for Japanese roads. Just a little different to Australian conditions.

Hope this helps.

C.

Mactype · Postby **Mactype** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:52 pm

Caedrus wrote:I would advise purchasing from a Fulcrum Distributor, as lots of TEIN units are sold set up for Japanese roads. Just a little different to Australian conditions.

How are they different?

Caedrus · Postby **Caedrus** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:07 pm

(No Expert Here)

I am led to believe that the Japanese units have a rebound / damper setup that is very good on extremely smooth roads, but that are harsher and less able to deal with Australian conditions.

This information comes from the staff at MX5 Mania after I made a pain of myself there for an hour or so...

C.

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:36 pm

If you want a stiff car & lowered look konis & kings & also change all your bushes with polyurathane.
If you want a quality ride get something better.
Don't get me wrong Koni & Kings can help make a weapon out of a car provided it is set up correctly & complimented by some decent tyres a good wheel alignment & LSD.
It will be a far superior ride to the standard set up. But when you hit bumps......they will tend to clunk. as oposed to rattle which it may do now.
Better quality shock setup will feel just as firm as the Koni & king set up however the difference is when you hit bumps. rather than getting clunks you will get bumps & probaly not feel the as hard as with the lesser Koni King combo. The cunking may also vary a little depending on how stiff the tire sidewalls are & tyre pressure you are running.
the big disadvantage of this package is the suspension travel. make sure you cut the bumpstops with this one

Coil over......I'm getting old....... I'm starting to require some comfort.But I still want performance. For me If I was to upgrade my King/Koni set up.....I wouln't do anything less than the Bilstein PSS9's

But thats another 1K on top of what you are really willing to spend.

bush_pig · Postby **bush_pig** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:32 pm

Thanks for taking the time to give me the good oil. Most helpful.. thanks.

Matty · Postby **Matty** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:54 pm

In general, the benefits of a coilover are that:
a) the damping rates are matched to the spring rates (though Jap setups are usually very stiff in the damping).
b) the height is adustable so you can corner weight (which is overkill for most people)
c) sometimes (eg Teins) the shock bodies are shorter, so there's more bump travel.

By the time you price up Kings, Konis and a set of short bumpstops, you're very close to the price of a set of coilovers (eg the SS) anyway. That said, (unless the Fulcrum specs are different) I think the rear spring rates on the Teins are way too high.

Slugoid · Postby **Slugoid** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:22 pm

For a daily driver, King/Koni with shortened bumpstops. If you plan to go on track a few times a year, Tein SS.

Casey · Postby **Casey** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:07 am

To be technically correct, any spring/damper combo fitted to an MX5 is a coil-over. Literally a coil-over is a damper with a coil spring mounted concentrically such that they form a single unit (coil-over-damper).

What is commonly called a coil-over is a very high quality adjustable damper (usually) and concentrically mounted spring matched unit fitted with an adjustable spring platform to adjust ride height and corner weights.

Something like the rear suspension in a Mazda 6, where you have the spring and damper seperated, is not a coil-over.

Anyhoo - the Koni dampers with Eibach springs are well worth a look. A much better option then King springs for only a little extra cost.

Casey · Postby **Casey** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 am

Mactype wrote:
Caedrus wrote:I would advise purchasing from a Fulcrum Distributor, as lots of TEIN units are sold set up for Japanese roads. Just a little different to Australian conditions.

How are they different?

Didn't Fulcrum do a lot of testing and specify dfferent valving for the Aust spec Teins to make them more suitable for local conditions?

Babalouie · Postby **Babalouie** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:09 am

Casey wrote:
Mactype wrote:
Caedrus wrote:I would advise purchasing from a Fulcrum Distributor, as lots of TEIN units are sold set up for Japanese roads. Just a little different to Australian conditions.

How are they different?

Didn't Fulcrum do a lot of testing and specify dfferent valving for the Aust spec Teins to make them more suitable for local conditions?

I think they're referring to getting japan-spec Teins from a grey mkt importer (which is quite cheap nowadays given the weak yen...) vs getting the Aussie-tweaked Teins from Fulcrum/Mania etc

Brad · Postby **Brad** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:46 am

At the tech night, Fulcrum described how Tein flew an engineer out and they tested and tuned the SS's for a series of cars for local roads. Fortunately the MX5 was one of these. I understand the Tein then made the coilovers to these specification back in Japan and exported them to Fulcrum who distribute.

ZenArcher · Postby **ZenArcher** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:35 am

David and Daniel at MX5 Mania installed a set of Teins on my MX5 last year in December.

Now after 10 months use, they are worth every cent. No, I don't go out to the race track, so some of you might think this is a wast of money for the road. But the road handling/holding and comfort levels are like nothing else I have ever had under any of the variouis modified cars I have owned over the years. (I am 40yrs old and have owned several Celicas, RX-7's, several SS Commodores, Triumph TR-7... the list goes on)

The teins are great, handling is excellent, but it isn't bone jarring when you hit bumpy areas on the road. The adjustability is also really good, you can feel the difference even 2 clicks make. Also the advantage of having height adjustability too. Which is the reason I had to get them in the end as I got done for having my MX5 5mm too low - the shocks had previously been replaced, but the springs had sagged.

I am currently using the new Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres - excellent... heaps better than the goodyears I had on previously. The goodyears were only 1/2 worn and they were letting go in the wet around corners without even trying at 40kph.

Anyway, just my 2c worth.

pcmx5 · Postby **pcmx5** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:23 am

ZenArcher wrote:David and Daniel at MX5 Mania installed a set of Teins on my MX5 last year in December.

Now after 10 months use, they are worth every cent. No, I don't go out to the race track, so some of you might think this is a wast of money for the road. But the road handling/holding and comfort levels are like nothing else I have ever had under any of the variouis modified cars I have owned over the years. (I am 40yrs old and have owned several Celicas, RX-7's, several SS Commodores, Triumph TR-7... the list goes on)

The teins are great, handling is excellent, but it isn't bone jarring when you hit bumpy areas on the road. The adjustability is also really good, you can feel the difference even 2 clicks make. Also the advantage of having height adjustability too. Which is the reason I had to get them in the end as I got done for having my MX5 5mm too low - the shocks had previously been replaced, but the springs had sagged.

Anyway, just my 2c worth.

I totally agree, love the Teins.

Having had Koni/king;koni/eibach and koni/standard springs my second choice would be Koni/Standard set at middle perch, which i found to handle well and ride great.

I disliked the ride with Kings and found the Ebachs great but too low.

Reag some of the overseas reviews I would be tempted to go KYB AGX's and standard springs as a economy set up.(AGX's can be brought in for under $470 at todays rate).If Ihad have kept the Italia that's what would have been going on it.

Peter

Brad · Postby **Brad** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:38 am

Prior to buying my Tein's, I compared the following:

Rebuild Clubman Bilsteins and add King Springs - $800
Koni and King combo - $1200
Avo and Kings - $1400
Tein's - $1600

I settled on the Tein's due the greater ride height and damping control, EDFC compatibility, build quality, local support, matched spring/damper setup and sheer bling

Very happy with them, though the chasie needs to be stiffer to get the most out of them.