sway bar question

[Matty]

Personally I think that's the best solution. I think Tein's rear spring rate selection is way too high. I was planning on putting 3kg springs on the back of mine...

But removing the rear sway is a free mod! can't beat that price.

[manga_blue]

7/4Kg F/R on an NA6 with standard bars gives FRC of 58.9 - exactly equal to stock.

Trouble is that Tein only seem to list 3Kg NA6 rears as options.

http://www.tein.com/mazda.html

No Fatty, you can't have my 4Kg rears.

[Matty]

Keep in mind I had 5kg fronts... (Tein HA)

If you pick a softer spring, be careful to check the required fully-compressed length. You don't want it binding at full bump.

[Fatty]

i have just dropped a bundle of cash into the car so replacing brand new springs is just not going to happen. as matty said, removing the rear bar is free!

thanks for bringing it up tho pump'n'go. i will file that one away for future reference. i still need to work on my driving technique, once i get that up to scratch, i will revisit the suspension etc, and look at my options then about springs, and any further improvements that can be made. with a bit of fine tuning along the way, hopefully i can get myself somewhere near being competitive on the track.

[Pumpn'Go]

Hi
Just something to think about.
There are probably quite a few people setting up their cars up, and are not quite sure what to do. So maby you could arrange to have a picnic day, where you and everyone else interested can swap springs around between the cars and get a feel for the diferences. Once you change the springs a few times , and especially with air tools, it can be done verry quickly. If there are a few spring rates you don't have, you could all pitch in and get a set , chances are that someone that try's them will want to buy them and you probably will all get your money back.
While you try springs you can connect and disconnect the rear bar too. It can help to get other drivers opinions on your setup, but it has to suit your driving. When you look at the fastest drivers, their cars are not all set up the same, but they are all fast setups because they suit that driver.
Col

[Matty]

Hi
Just something to think about.
There are probably quite a few people setting up their cars up, and are not quite sure what to do. So maby you could arrange to have a picnic day, where you and everyone else interested can swap springs around between the cars and get a feel for the diferences. Once you change the springs a few times , and especially with air tools, it can be done verry quickly. If there are a few spring rates you don't have, you could all pitch in and get a set , chances are that someone that try's them will want to buy them and you probably will all get your money back.
While you try springs you can connect and disconnect the rear bar too. It can help to get other drivers opinions on your setup, but it has to suit your driving. When you look at the fastest drivers, their cars are not all set up the same, but they are all fast setups because they suit that driver.
Col

The place is called DECA.

[carsokay]

Some great info here:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... r+steering

[Pumpn'Go]

Thanks for that link. I took my time and read the lot, it's good to get info from people that are trying the changes , not just thinking about them. To steal a comment from the thread that I think is important; (For every major adjustment you make to the suspension, there will probably be a period of driver adjustment associated with it.) The most important nut to tighten, is the one behind the wheel. Long ago I raced sports sedans class in sydney, just club stuff. If I learn't one thing, that was that there is more time to be shaved off lap times improving the driver, than the car. That said we often refuse to try something that sounds wrong to us, like running with no bar's, and unless you try for yourself you really don't know.
Col
PS; Over and understeer can be changed by the way you attack the corner, so sometimes that is what you need to change, not the car.

[Fatty]

just a follow up post, after testing both options a phillip island today. initally i decided to be cautious so phil and i removed the rear bar for my first session. i did not feel comfortable with this set up at all. the car was understeering all over the place. i had great difficulty getting the car to turn and go where i wanted it to go.

we refitted the bar for the remaining sessions and the car felt much better to me. much more neutral, maybe leaning ever so slightly towards oversteer. i was able to induce understeer or oversteer depending on how i approached a corner , how i braked or how i applied throttle. it just felt more natural and \"right\" to me.

i'll continue to fiddle with it i guess, as i gain more experience, and try to tune it to my liking. but i doubt i'll be revisiting the \"remove rear bar\" option again anytime soon. it just felt awful to me. but maybe that is just coz of my driving style, which needs a lot of work!

[Pumpn'Go]

To really test if you like the , with or without bar setup. You would need to change the rear springs . The amount of roll stifness you have with the rear bar is right for you, if changing your style slightly goes from under to oversteer. I would sugest putting your numbers into the Fatcat spreadsheet and getting a % for FCR and sticking exactly or very close to that %. But to do a fair test to see if you like the no sway method you have to find springs that give you that % without the bar.
Col
From what I can get from the text iv'e read, the no bar method is more for road use so the more frequent bumps and potholes don't upset the car so much.

[Fatty]

guys, had a closer look at my front swaybar today while we had the front wheel off. i'd just assumed my car has standard bars but it seems i already have a bigger bar fitted to the front, fitted by a previous owner. this seems to make sense given that my car feels pretty neutral, and understeered a lot hen we took the rear bar off. so there you go.

[Matty]

He. There you go. It always helps to know what you're starting with before making changes...

BTW open end spanners make for cheap, rough gauges for estimating sway bar size...

[Fatty]

well now i'm not so sure about that. i actually measured it today and it's only 19mm and looks exactly the same as the bar on fattima's car, we measured his at 19mm as well.

[Steampunk]

And I thought I was a penny-pincher, but reading posts about removing the rear bar instead of upgrading the front to reduce oversteer is .... hmmm.... unexpected to say the least.
My car (NA8) is standard and the only suspension part I have changed is front anti-sway bar. Went for a 22mm solid bar (standard is 19mm hollow) and the change is awesome.
Only a hint of understeer when really pushed, and steering feel has improved.

Another bonus side-effect that I haven't seen people mention is the scuttle-shake has decreased significantly. This alone would make people want to upgrade.
I am now scouring for a rear bar, and front & rear strut tower braces.

In short, if you want to reduce the \"tailyness\" upgrade your front bar only.

[Matty]

Another bonus side-effect that I haven't seen people mention is the scuttle-shake has decreased significantly. This alone would make people want to upgrade.
I am now scouring for a rear bar, and front & rear strut tower braces.

In short, if you want to reduce the "tailyness" upgrade your front bar only.

I'm surprised about the scuttle shake. Normally a stiffer suspension setup give sthe opposite effect.

If I were you I'd stick to a 14mm rear bar. Might be worth checking out how much they are from Mazda (that was the size used on the SE and AFAIK is interchangeable).