sway bar question

Mr Starlet · Postby **Mr Starlet** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:35 pm

manga_blue wrote:Minh, you can't look at sway bars in isolation. They work in concert with the springs. e.g. If the rear springs are relatively stiff then you don't need extra stiffening from sways.

That's true, what sort of swaybar setup would suit the Tein SS 6kg/5kg front rear springs?

Cheers
Minh

Matty · Postby **Matty** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:40 pm

Mr Starlet wrote:
manga_blue wrote:Minh, you can't look at sway bars in isolation. They work in concert with the springs. e.g. If the rear springs are relatively stiff then you don't need extra stiffening from sways.

That's true, what sort of swaybar setup would suit the Tein SS 5kg/4kg front rear springs?

Cheers
Minh

Do I need to repeat myself?

Mr Starlet · Postby **Mr Starlet** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Matty wrote:
Mr Starlet wrote:
manga_blue wrote:Minh, you can't look at sway bars in isolation. They work in concert with the springs. e.g. If the rear springs are relatively stiff then you don't need extra stiffening from sways.

That's true, what sort of swaybar setup would suit the Tein SS 5kg/4kg front rear springs?

Cheers
Minh

Do I need to repeat myself?

My bad

saw the recommendation on the earlier post.

Fatty · Postby **Fatty** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:16 pm

Juffa wrote:Fatty,

You are welcome to take Tweety for a drive.

Torsen Diff, Tein Flex coil overs, super pro bushes, whiteline adjustable front sway, and no rear sway.

Not sure when the next track day is, but might be worth you trying a few cars and see what suits your driving style.

J

thanks juffa, you're a champ.

the torsen, teins and bushes are being fitted to the car as we speak. i'll see how i like it and then maybe go for a spin in yours for comparison. still unsure about the adjustable front, i might stick with the oem bars for now and see how i go, then fiddle with sway bars if not happy. i spoke to my suspension guy and he is not keen on removing the rear bar. he thinks he can tune things up nicely by playing with the damping on the teins, or by going to an adjustable front. so we'll see... he does really seem to know what he is on about, so i'm trusting his judgement, as well as all the great info you guys have shared. thanks again everyone.

Matty · Postby **Matty** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:51 pm

Fatty - there's absolutely nothing wrong with removing the rear sway. As much as I'm sure your suspension guy is trustworthy, I'd also be inclined to trust the people (like Shaikh, CT, and dare I say, me) who have plenty of experience tuning and driving this exact car, rather than going by experience drawn from completely different vehicles.

Tuning with the shocks is a total bandaid to having the wrong spring or sway rates. (Which is not to say there's no merit in it, of course there is.)

Shock rates are for adjusting transients like turn in or exit power-down. Springs and sways will keep you balanced mid-corner or in a long sweeper.

You could upsize the front bar accordingly, but there's two problems: one, it costs to trial all the different bar sizes, and two, the larger a sway you go, the more skittish the front can become over bumps, because you lose suspension independence.

HTH.

Matty · Postby **Matty** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:54 pm

Oh, and by the way, you will probably find it hard to find the subtle difference between small changes without going to the track where you can really push at 10/10ths.

Rob E · Postby **Rob E** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:59 pm

Matty wrote:Oh, and by the way, you will probably find it hard to find the subtle difference between small changes without going to the track where you can really push at 10/10ths.

Yes, and with that in mind for a novice driver you want to err on the side of caution - understeer. Give the rear bar the miss........if you need to you can justify it to yourself as a lightening exercise :lol:

Fatty · Postby **Fatty** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:08 pm

matty, please don't think i'm discounting what you are saying coz \"some suspension guy\" told me a different opinion. i totally respect your opinion because, as you said, you have first hand experience with this exact car.

funny tho that you mention a \"band aid solution\"... this is exactly how he described the removal of the rear bar :mrgreen:

so please don't take me the wrong way, i am gathering info in an area that i am unfamiliar with, so i have conflicting views being put to me, and i am open to them all.

as for only finding it hard to tell the differences other than at the track, yep.. i'll be at phillip island in a few weeks so i'm keen to test it out there. hence, i want to try to get it pretty well set up beforehand.

and rob, i'm more comfortable dealing with a bit of oversteer than i am with understeer. but you're right, i'm definately a novice! as you can tell by all the questions! :mrgreen:

Rob E · Postby **Rob E** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:05 pm

Hi mate, more confident with high speed oversteer? you are a brave man :lol:

Fatty · Postby **Fatty** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:11 pm

heehee. you're probably right :mrgreen:

Grumpy · Postby **Grumpy** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:17 pm

For what it's worth Fatty, my 5 I believe has stock springs and sway bars. I fitted some KYB's and the handling suits me. Will be at the Island this weekend having a short run Sat and Sun. Am playing official at the State Race Series. I have a ticket if you are interested.

Fatty · Postby **Fatty** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:01 pm

thanks grumpy. not this weekend tho, i'm flat out. i will be at the island next weekend tho.

had another chat to the suspension guy and he was more open to the idea of rear bar removal this time around, once i backed it up with a bit more evidence as provided by matty and manga blue. he suggests i take the car for a lap at phillip island, and if too taily, remove rear bar. this was good to hear, as it is exactly what has been suggested here. seems we all agree, so i am feeling a lot better about things now!

Boags · Postby **Boags** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:43 am

Fatty wrote:i am feeling a lot better about things now!

Nothing to do with the fact that your car has brand new bushes and Teins in it, by any chance? :mrgreen:

How long would it take to remove the rear bar? Can it be done at the track without you missing too much track time?

Boags

Fatty · Postby **Fatty** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:34 am

it takes 5 minutes. it's just 2 bolts!

Pumpn'Go · Postby **Pumpn'Go** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:26 pm

Hi
As much as it may be a bit different to what you asked , I would suggest changing the spring rate front or rear to change the balance of under-over steer. Going too big in the sway takes away from the cars ability to work independantly , it connects booth sides together, and on a bumpy road it won't work as well as matched springs, with softer , or no sway on rear. Big bars may work well on smooth road or track, but why not have the car work well on flat and rough surfaces, if one tyre hits a pot hole you want the least possible affect on the other tyres.
If anyone disagrees let me know why you think that way.
Cost should be about the same springs or swaybar.
Col