Need to rant...

[kudos]

Hi Guys,

Before I begin half of this belongs in the suspension/tyres section - the rest is a bit of a rant so figured I would torture all and sundry with it .

Decided to get a wheel alignment done on the NC at the 20K service and used some figures derived from Charlie Brown and others in this thread:

http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=24776

I used russs' settings with the toe and camber mods that CB recommended.

The Mazda dealer did the alignment and messed up - they thought I wanted everything dialed up to the extreme (camber 2+ etc..) When I picked it up and looked at the specs I told them they had got it wrong and that I had gone through the whole thing with the service manager and showed them the highlighted settings. I was reasonable about it and they were apologetic and said they would fix it.

I brought the car back two weeks later - it was certainly more aggressive during that time but seemed to develop a slight pull to the right so I was driving straight with the wheel turned a few degrees to the left. I mentioned everything at the time to the Mazda dealer and they said they would fix it. So the car came back, the alignment was apparently right and the wheel *seemed* OK. Within an hour of driving it tho it became apparent that something was very wrong and over the course of the next week the wheel was a full 5+ degrees out! I contacted them right away and calmly explained what was going on. They apologised and said they would fix it the following weekend. Over the course of that week I could hear bumps and creaks in the back that were never there before and the wheel annoyed me so much (even tho they were going to fix it) that I had to ring the service manager back and inform him that I would be seeking a refund as I was concerned that the whole alignment.. etc.. everthing .. was stuffed. He wasn't too impressed with that even tho I respectfully stated that I understand that this stuff happens but would still be seeking a refund. Essentially he thought I was having a go at him and his team - I actually felt bad for a little while.. :/

Took it back again (the dealer is in Berwick - I live inner city) and he acknowledged the wheel problem and they attempted to right the steering alignment. For the first day or two it seemed ok then it became apparent that it was still pulling slightly to the left when held in a straight line. I contacted the dealer told him about the issue, informed him I would be going somewhere else to pay for another alignment and getting the steering fixed. They apologised and said they would give me a refund at my next service. Finally...

So I contacted a Vic club recommended wheel alignment specialist in Essendon and got an alignment there.. Essentially requesting CB's alignment. I mentioned the steering to them and they took down notes relating to the alignment. They discovered something lose in the rear suspension (and mysteriously the creaking sound has stopped) and the previous alignment settings were complete 100% f&*$ed. Generally the alignment seems ok except for the toe on the front wheels which seem to be more than a few degrees from zero (CB recommended zeroing out the front toe). The drivers side front wheel also seems to have an odd camber setting (the printout doesn't show this but I'm sure I can 'see' it) and the steering is still not 100%..

I hate my car right now.. Everytime I drive it I'm reminded as to how \"un-MX5\" like it feels. It makes me miss my NB - sure it didn't have the punch of the NC but it held the road so well and felt brilliant - now with the NC all I have is a nice looking new car..I want something that feels brillant to drive not something that looks nice. I can't understand why this is so hard for dealers/tyre places to resolve. I explain the problem to them - they acknowledge the problem - why doesn't anyone take pride in their work and actually fix the problem? I would get shot if this happened time and again in my job with our products.. Does anybody know a decent wheel alignment/dealer that will act

[kudos]

Does anybody know a decent wheel alignment/dealer that will actually listen to me and check the problem thoroughly without making me feel like a prick for complaining (I'm talking 'calmly complaining' too) if it's not done right? I don't want to swap cars.. (and I know thats not the solution) but I hate it so much at the moment.. this is my first new car and I take great pride in the fact that thats the case but I keep looking at used S2000's and Boxsters now and again thinking I would come away with a few grand in my pocket and perhaps the service would be better..

Sorry that this has gone on for a while (especially given I haven't made much of a contribution to the forum of late) but I needed to vent..

[rjastra2]

So, you are using a mixture of two peoples settings and you don't like it?

[kudos]

So, you are using a mixture of two peoples settings and you don't like it?

No no - not at all - I probably wasn't very clear (try re-reading what I wrote) and you were probably too quick to jump down my throat about some useless point - but hey - ya gotta look good on the forum right buddy?

I used the russs' settings from the earlier post which were based on CB's settings. CB then made comment that the wheel alignment setting seemed ok with the exception of.. yadda yadda and I applied his recommended changes. In general what I've requested along the entire way has been from CB's recommendation in the archive section.

What I'm unhappy about is mainly the steering alignment and the lack of initiative employed by these guys - how many times do I have to complain about something before its fixed properly? I don't want to be one of those guys...

I have taken previous advice from this forum regarding NB wheel alignment specs and my NB came out rock solid - fantastic.. I just can't get it right with the NC...

[16bit]

i got a wheel alignment for my nb by fulcrum - they are good.

[bigdog]

If I have read your post correctly you are running an NC with standard suspension. CB's recommended alignment specs are as follows:

As for your standard alignment, if you land in the 0.75 – 1.0 negative camber front range and 1.0 - 1.25 rear that will do. Go for 1 – 2mm total toe in on the rear and 0mm toe on the front. Caster should be up around 6.5 degrees.

This is what you should be asking for - if you have asked for anything different camber wise or toe wise then you could have made the problem worse. The fact that something was loose won't help matters, but if you have been to a recommended aligner, and he has used those specs and the print out confirms this, then something else is wrong with the car - eg stuffed shock, broken spring, broken sway bar mount, broken shock mount etc. The other thing that will have a big effect is tyres and tyre pressures - are they worn? What pressure are you running?

What was the car like for the first 20000km? did it handle well prior to the alignment change?

I can't recommend a wheel aligner in other states (Spinning Wheel or Straight Talk are the go in Sydney), I'll leave that to others, but my guess is still on something else being wrong.

[kudos]

If I have read your post correctly you are running an NC with standard suspension. CB's recommended alignment specs are as follows:

As for your standard alignment, if you land in the 0.75 – 1.0 negative camber front range and 1.0 - 1.25 rear that will do. Go for 1 – 2mm total toe in on the rear and 0mm toe on the front. Caster should be up around 6.5 degrees.

The other thing that will have a big effect is tyres and tyre pressures - are they worn? What pressure are you running?

What was the car like for the first 20000km? did it handle well prior to the alignment change?

Yeah - what I've asked for on both occasions is pretty much what CB has recommended above - 0.8 front negative camber, 1.25 rear, 2mm toe in rear and 0mm toe on the front. Caster between 5.5 and 6.5. Tyres still have reasonable life in them and I tend to run 32 PSI all around. Handling up to 20k was ok but not fantastic :/

[JBT]

One of the ongoing problems you may be facing is that those doing the alignment may have uncalibrated or poorly calibrated equipment. I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions.

A Mazda dealer had 3 goes at getting our Astina right and couldn't. Eventually a guy came out from state head office and, without putting the car on the alignment machinery, could see that it was way out of wack. It ended up going to Fulcrum here to be done right - no problems since.

Our previous MX-5 (NA) got completely screwed up after an alignment as part of a body repair (after a small biff). It didn't need it but it was being paid for by insurance as a check that all was OK. It had previously been aligned by Fulcrum. When the report said that the camber settings were \"waaaayyyy out\" I was a immediately wary. Sure enough, these dickheads actually set the front to .5 degree positive on the left and 1.3 negative camber on the right but their machine said .9 degree negative left and right. Yep, it pulled left at any speed. The rear toe settings were something like 10mm toe in but the machine indicated .5 mm toe in each side.

In both cases the equipment was out of calibration.

[bruce]

Its seems to me more like a black art to get these things right.

[DAJ333]

Does anybody know a decent wheel alignment/dealer that will actually listen to me and check the problem thoroughly without making me feel like a prick for complaining ...

Pedders Hawthorn. Jack will listen to you, will probably suggest a change or two, which you are well advised to consider.

[JBT]

Oh and I forgot to mention that the appalling pre-delivery service on the NC had the alignment way out too. The improvement after Fulcrum adjusted it was obvious.

[Juffa]

Does anybody know a decent wheel alignment/dealer that will actually listen to me and check the problem thoroughly without making me feel like a prick for complaining ...

Pedders Hawthorn. Jack will listen to you, will probably suggest a change or two, which you are well advised to consider.

Second that recommendation......I have used Pedders Hawthorn for a number of cars.

Also, could the dodgy alignments affected the tyre wear, which is now impacting on how the car feels?

J

[kudos]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys - I know its a small thing but it has been draining to have the car in this state for so long, requesting it be fixed and still having to encounter problems :/ I shouldn't be getting so stressed about it

I'll give Pedders Hawthorn a call and speak to Jack about stuff and see what he can do.

[Artificial Life]

Hang in there. My NC wasn't amazing to drive until the suspension settings were nailed. I used CB's settings (and wheel shop, too, probably not practical for Victorians).

It's brilliant now though

[kudos]

Spoke to Tim at Essendon Beaurepaires regarding fixing the steering alignment and he said that they would have done it to spec (being CB's spec) and the the steering pull to the left would be due to the natural camber on the roads.

This is crap as on a flat surface it still pulls to the left and I imagine everyone who applied CB's spec would be encountering the exact same problem. My understanding is that the steering is aligned seperately to the wheel alignment and that the steering should be zero'd before commencing any wheel alignment and then adjusted following to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen. His suggestion was that they would have to take it out of the supplied spec to get it the way I want it. I also informed him that I could see that the left front passenger wheel was clearly pointing 'off to the left' whilst the right front drivers wheel was straight - all unscientific/line of sight stuff I know but it sure looks like thats the case - again he stated that would be the spec I requested.

Is what he's said on the money? Or should I be asking for mine back? If their advice is dodgy I think the Vic club should seriously reconsidering recommending them :/ I'll be driving it like this for another week or two then I'm going to Pedders Hawthorn where I can confirm all this advice..