re-named which cams!? tomei's from who?

[irwin83r]

toda and tomei pretty much on par as far as build quality and performance gains go?

[Babalouie]

My mate with the parts shop in Japan said that Toda \"has better craftsmanship\". But he himself doesn't have any issues buying Tomei for himself!

At the end of the day I figure you get what you pay for and the Todas are more expensive

[irwin83r]

My mate with the parts shop in Japan said that Toda "has better craftsmanship". But he himself doesn't have any issues buying Tomei for himself!

At the end of the day I figure you get what you pay for and the Todas are more expensive

looking at the quote toda gave me they have a 9mm lift range and a 10mm lift range... but the say base dia 36mm and 33mm respectively.. whats the base Dia refering too?

[Babalouie]

My mate with the parts shop in Japan said that Toda "has better craftsmanship". But he himself doesn't have any issues buying Tomei for himself!

At the end of the day I figure you get what you pay for and the Todas are more expensive

looking at the quote toda gave me they have a 9mm lift range and a 10mm lift range... but the say base dia 36mm and 33mm respectively.. whats the base Dia refering too?

The base circle is the round part of the lobe (ie the part that doesn't do anything). The lift is relative to the distance between the peak of the lobe, and the base circle.

So when you install your NB cams, you would shim up the lifters so that there was a certain amount of clearance between the lifter and the base circle.

The prob with BP heads is that when you run a really big lobe, it'll hit the lifter bosses. So with the NA8 cams Tomei runs a small base circle, so that the cam doesn't take up so much room, and the HLAs will extend that little bit further to take up the slack from the smaller base circle.

I'm not sure why they would offer you 2 base circle options tho..

[Mason]

I did some groundbreaking with cams on an nb8a about 3 or 4 years ago.

I went with Toda cams, cam gears and an emanage.

If you give me some time I can try and dig up the specs on what I did. Its been so long that I can't remember what I used. I'm moving house at the moment so things aren't easily found.

If dyno readings are significant to you it netted me 84rwkw. I did a before dyno run but didn't go back to the same dyno for the run afterwards.

I would agree that the Toda cams and cam gears are beautifully crafted.

I'm pretty happy with the way the mods turned out. More mid to top end.
I haven't had the cam gears adjusted, I think they were just set at zero.
If I was thinking of keeping the car longer I'd have them adjusted to bring down the power band a bit. There's prob a bit more to go but it hits the limiter.

Jason at Top Tune services the car so he can give you his thoughts.
I think Babs went for a ride in it too (Blue nb, I bought rims off you).

Hope that's helpful.

[Babalouie]

Jason at Top Tune services the car so he can give you his thoughts.
I think Babs went for a ride in it too (Blue nb, I bought rims off you).

From memory, I think you might have even let me have a go

This is a looong time ago now, but I would have said that Masons and my engine would feel pretty similar. I did before and after dyno runs on the same dyno and went from 81rwkw to 90rwkw. But as I said before, it doesn't feel quite as dramatic an increase as that.

[irwin83r]

I'm not sure why they would offer you 2 base circle options tho..

i might be reading it wrong
Standard base diameter ø36 mm.)

Part No
Cam Angle
Cam Lift
Price

#§14111-BP0-001
256 IN
9.0
$595

#§14111-BP0-011
264 IN
9.0
$595

§14111-BP0-021
272 IN
9.0
$595

14111-BP0-031
288 IN
9.0
$595

14111-BP0-041
304 IN
9.0
$595

#§14121-BP0-001
256 EX
9.0
$595

#§14121-BP0-011
264 EX
9.0
$595

14121-BP0-021
272 EX
9.0
$595

14121-BP0-031
288 EX
9.0
$595

14121-BP0-041
304 EX
9.0
$595


NA8/STD Hydraulic Lash Adjuster system cannot be used.
Locked Lash Adjuster or Inner Shim Kit required.
#NA8C STD ECU idling is not affected.
§NB8C STD ECU idling is not affected.



(Standard base diameter ø33 mm.)

Part No
Cam Angle
Cam Lift
Price

14111-BP1-011
264 IN
10.0
$595

14111-BP1-021
272 IN
10.0
$595

14111-BP1-031
288 IN
10.0
$595

14111-BP1-041
304 IN
10.0
$595

14121-BP1-011
264 EX
10.0
$595

14121-BP1-021
272 EX
10.0
$595

14121-BP1-031
288 EX
10.0
$595

14121-BP1-041
304 EX
10.0
$595




NA8/STD Hydraulic Lash Adjuster system cannot be used.
ª Inner shim kit required

[Matty]

I'm not sure why they would offer you 2 base circle options tho..

smaller base circle = more side loads on the lifters.

More side load = more friction + more wear.

[Babalouie]

Ahh ok.

Well it looks like the 36mm base circle cams can run with a locked lifter, or shimmed-up stock lifter (well I think that's what it means), but it has 9mm lift.

The \"bigger\" 10mm lift cams have to use the full-house lifter kit cos the lifter solutions above aren't hardcore enough, and the base circle is smaller probably to have more room and clearance.

The small base circle cam probably won't work with the stock ifter mods because you'd have to use too thick a shim to make up the difference.

[irwin83r]

Ahh ok.

Well it looks like the 36mm base circle cams can run with a locked lifter, or shimmed-up stock lifter (well I think that's what it means), but it has 9mm lift.

The "bigger" 10mm lift cams have to use the full-house lifter kit cos the lifter solutions above aren't hardcore enough, and the base circle is smaller probably to have more room and clearance.

The small base circle cam probably won't work with the stock ifter mods because you'd have to use too thick a shim to make up the difference.

ahh ok cheers... so if i only want to change the camshafts and use a shum kit i will have to stick to the 9mm lift ones? they make it sound like i just need to use there shim kit on either...?

Notes regarding inner shim kit:

The lifter is the only part to be replaced
Stock valve springs can be used
Common part for both NA8 & NAB engines
NA8 BP engines use HLA as standard. Replacing these with TODA inner shim kit not only saves 17.5g per lifter,

It removes oil fluctuations enabling engine to reach higher speeds safely.

NB8 BP engines use outer shims as standard; Due to small shim diameter these are prone to failure with high lift cams.

TODA inner shim kit saves 9g per lifter & again allows freer revving of engine.

Additional shims sold separately if required 1.5mm to 3.0mm - $12 each



Kit is supplied with STD sided shims, additional shims available on request.

[Fra66L]

Irwin,

I'm in the process of having some cvams made up by Tighe cams. The cams are based on the existing 805Cs and reworked for the NB solid lifters, I'm still waiting on the final grind but Dean Tighe should be able to give you some pointers...

Cost = $900-$1000 (I think - may be cheaper...) for new billets and will reuse existing lifters (although will most likely need reshimming)

Cheers,
T

[Matty]

Ahh ok.

Well it looks like the 36mm base circle cams can run with a locked lifter, or shimmed-up stock lifter (well I think that's what it means), but it has 9mm lift.

The "bigger" 10mm lift cams have to use the full-house lifter kit cos the lifter solutions above aren't hardcore enough, and the base circle is smaller probably to have more room and clearance.

The small base circle cam probably won't work with the stock ifter mods because you'd have to use too thick a shim to make up the difference.

ahh ok cheers... so if i only want to change the camshafts and use a shum kit i will have to stick to the 9mm lift ones? they make it sound like i just need to use there shim kit on either...?

Notes regarding inner shim kit:

The lifter is the only part to be replaced
Stock valve springs can be used
Common part for both NA8 & NAB engines
NA8 BP engines use HLA as standard. Replacing these with TODA inner shim kit not only saves 17.5g per lifter,

It removes oil fluctuations enabling engine to reach higher speeds safely.

NB8 BP engines use outer shims as standard; Due to small shim diameter these are prone to failure with high lift cams.

TODA inner shim kit saves 9g per lifter & again allows freer revving of engine.

Additional shims sold separately if required 1.5mm to 3.0mm - $12 each



Kit is supplied with STD sided shims, additional shims available on request.

You are aware of the labour involved with installing inner shims?

Frankly, unless you're building a race motor (ie, capable of more revs, and money is no object), stick with cams that can drop in.

[irwin83r]

yeah looks like ill be going to tomei's pon cams.
if i decide its too much for me to handle theres a guy in wollongong that CT pointed me too that can install them for me but i should be fine.

now its just a matter of picking an ECU and find some more money...

[CT]

Oh... have I been down this path before....

I used to run cams with over 11mm lift on my race engine. We used a very simple customised HLA. By replacing the spring in the valve contact piece of the HLA with a machined piece that was \"grindable\" and using lash caps on the stock valve stems, we were able to build a solid, shim under bucket lifter form a stock Mazda HLA. The cost of this solution was well under a TODA lifter kit at $1300+ when I was building that motor. In fact, Wollongong Engine Reconditioners at Fairy Meadow did all this work for me and my father machined up the \"spacers\" and even made a small device to hold them in the grinder. A few other race engines also have this solution with big cams. This was a 120rwkw+ na engine and was first designed almost 5 years ago. I aslo know of one car in the USA with our solids.

The lesson that I would preach is to buy a solution such as the toda one unless you can afford to develop a solution such as this one yourself. Pay close attention to the base circles and lift and unless you are revving above 7800rpm - staying with HLAs is not a bad thing. Don't re-invent the wheel when the benefits are quite simply marginal.

[Sean]

On cams - Someone left a message on Steve's mobile today asking about cams and geting a set delivered to Top Tune (apparently it was a customer, not Jason). Problem is teh caller didn't leave a return number!

If it was you, please call him back, you obviously have his number, but he doesn't have yours to call you back!