I'm upgrading my suspension to coilovers.The question is either to get the pillow ball tops or not.So far I have some diferent opinions and it would be good to get info from people who have 1st hand knowledge.
I have been told;
pillowballs rattle and drive you crazy
p-b give better road feel-tighter
p-b are not necessary on wishbone suspension
Some coilovers will bottom out if too low with the p-b top, and you need the strut tops that move the mounting point upward, to keep full suspension travel.
I intend to fit the new shocks without springs,fit the new softer bump stops and see if the bump stop or the shock bottoms out,surely that will stop any possibility of shock damage.
Your help and opinions would be greatly apreciated .
Thanks Col
Pillow Ball advantages-disadvantages
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Benny
- Speed Racer
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Pillowballs will make the car ride and feel like there are no rubber bushes, which is what they replace.
I doubt you'd be very happy with them after going over any bumps on the street.
Leave the pillowballs for the track.
I doubt you'd be very happy with them after going over any bumps on the street.
Leave the pillowballs for the track.
ALWAYS RUNNING, SP with Bilstein Coil Overs and Doof Doof sound. Member of the Fat Bastards Racing Team
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RaceSupplies
Col,
Pillow balls don't rattle, or at least they shouldn't unless they are shagged. Maybe poor quality ones do. They do however have a solid *thump* noise when hitting pot holes or other large bumps. They don't drive me crazy, and i daily drive my car, but i put up with the tyre noise from RE55S's everyday so maybe it's a bit hardcore for daily driving for some?
Yes, i feel they do improve response and feel. That is what they are designed for. They eliminate anything that gives a vague feeling. It's like solid bushes in control arms and things like that. They're all designed to give almost instantaneous response.
Why would they not be necessary on wish bone suspension? Nothing is *necessary* but it is ideal for the above reasons. They are used on more circuit orientated cars, double A arm or not.
I'd be interested to see these strut tops you speak of. The concept doesn't quite sound right, unless it moves the point where the spring sits on the strut top further down than where it would otherwise sit. This will raise the car, so you'll have to lower the spring platform to lower it, which will mean you'll be chasing your tail.
On an MX5, through experience, you don't want the thing slammed anyway. Sure, for looks go ahead, but expect less than ideal handling and i mean even on the street. The MX5's are toe sensitive and have some characteristics when lowered that are \"interesting\". The lower control arms need to be horizontal, or even pointing down to the ball joints. Certainly not up to the ball joint! Basically, you are messing with roll centres and an MX5 does not like it. By all means slam the car if you think it'll handle better, but i almost guarantee you'll raise it and notice a difference.
In a nutshell, don't slam the car. It doesn't need to be, and if you do, Super Streets as you've emailed me about will fail. They're not designed to be slammed. If you hit the bump stops regularly, you've done something wrong.
While i have you're attention, i am importing some coil overs for Travymx5 this week. They're japanese made, called Circuit Spec Tuning Zero 1's. They have the same features as Flex, but cost the same as Super Streets. I'll email you pics. They come in 8kg front/6kg rear so if you're worried about the harshness of pillow balls, they may be a bit hard for you. They've been recommended to me as an alternative to Super Streets, so i'm getting some in to test out on an NB. I may have some fitted to an NA in a few weeks for some testing as well. Both will see track work as well as daily duties.
Pillow balls don't rattle, or at least they shouldn't unless they are shagged. Maybe poor quality ones do. They do however have a solid *thump* noise when hitting pot holes or other large bumps. They don't drive me crazy, and i daily drive my car, but i put up with the tyre noise from RE55S's everyday so maybe it's a bit hardcore for daily driving for some?
Yes, i feel they do improve response and feel. That is what they are designed for. They eliminate anything that gives a vague feeling. It's like solid bushes in control arms and things like that. They're all designed to give almost instantaneous response.
Why would they not be necessary on wish bone suspension? Nothing is *necessary* but it is ideal for the above reasons. They are used on more circuit orientated cars, double A arm or not.
I'd be interested to see these strut tops you speak of. The concept doesn't quite sound right, unless it moves the point where the spring sits on the strut top further down than where it would otherwise sit. This will raise the car, so you'll have to lower the spring platform to lower it, which will mean you'll be chasing your tail.
On an MX5, through experience, you don't want the thing slammed anyway. Sure, for looks go ahead, but expect less than ideal handling and i mean even on the street. The MX5's are toe sensitive and have some characteristics when lowered that are \"interesting\". The lower control arms need to be horizontal, or even pointing down to the ball joints. Certainly not up to the ball joint! Basically, you are messing with roll centres and an MX5 does not like it. By all means slam the car if you think it'll handle better, but i almost guarantee you'll raise it and notice a difference.
In a nutshell, don't slam the car. It doesn't need to be, and if you do, Super Streets as you've emailed me about will fail. They're not designed to be slammed. If you hit the bump stops regularly, you've done something wrong.
While i have you're attention, i am importing some coil overs for Travymx5 this week. They're japanese made, called Circuit Spec Tuning Zero 1's. They have the same features as Flex, but cost the same as Super Streets. I'll email you pics. They come in 8kg front/6kg rear so if you're worried about the harshness of pillow balls, they may be a bit hard for you. They've been recommended to me as an alternative to Super Streets, so i'm getting some in to test out on an NB. I may have some fitted to an NA in a few weeks for some testing as well. Both will see track work as well as daily duties.
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Babalouie
- godfather of saké
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I have the pillow balls on the front of ther Luce and I wouldn't say they add to the harshness *that* much. No rattles either but there is I would say more road noise transmitted to the cabin.
Also, a forumite (Roadster) already has imported a set of the CST coilover and has run them on his NB for probably over a year now.
Also, a forumite (Roadster) already has imported a set of the CST coilover and has run them on his NB for probably over a year now.
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Babalouie
- godfather of saké
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Re:
AJ wrote:gotta remember tho babs, the Luce is a bloody big car compared to a 5 & would absorb the harshness more
Yair I spose that extra 600kg has got to be good for something
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RaceSupplies
Re:
Babalouie wrote:I have the pillow balls on the front of ther Luce and I wouldn't say they add to the harshness *that* much. No rattles either but there is I would say more road noise transmitted to the cabin.
Also, a forumite (Roadster) already has imported a set of the CST coilover and has run them on his NB for probably over a year now.
Awesome! Well, sounds promising. We'll be seeing how they handle the track and what feed back they give us when pushed.
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Babalouie
- godfather of saké
- Posts: 1457
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Re:
RaceSupplies wrote:Babalouie wrote:I have the pillow balls on the front of ther Luce and I wouldn't say they add to the harshness *that* much. No rattles either but there is I would say more road noise transmitted to the cabin.
Also, a forumite (Roadster) already has imported a set of the CST coilover and has run them on his NB for probably over a year now.
Awesome! Well, sounds promising. We'll be seeing how they handle the track and what feed back they give us when pushed.
I had a quick go, and it seems pretty good. FIRM tho.
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RaceSupplies
Re:
Babalouie wrote:RaceSupplies wrote:Babalouie wrote:I have the pillow balls on the front of ther Luce and I wouldn't say they add to the harshness *that* much. No rattles either but there is I would say more road noise transmitted to the cabin.
Also, a forumite (Roadster) already has imported a set of the CST coilover and has run them on his NB for probably over a year now.
Awesome! Well, sounds promising. We'll be seeing how they handle the track and what feed back they give us when pushed.
I had a quick go, and it seems pretty good. FIRM tho.
Did you get to have a look at the quality of them?
Glad to hear it felt good. Was a little concerned considering i've never seen them, but my supplier highly recommended them over Super Streets. For $1500 with base height adjustment, pillow balls, damper adjustment, it's a big improvement on Tein's for the price!
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Pumpn'Go
Re:
RaceSupplies wrote:Col,
While i have you're attention, i am importing some coil overs for Travymx5 this week. They're japanese made, called Circuit Spec Tuning Zero 1's. They have the same features as Flex, but cost the same as Super Streets. I'll email you pics. They come in 8kg front/6kg rear so if you're worried about the harshness of pillow balls, they may be a bit hard for you. They've been recommended to me as an alternative to Super Streets, .
I have had a search for information on these coilovers and all I can find that sound like these are Cusco brand but they state that they don't have adjustable dampening.
Can you please send more information about these coilovers.
Thanks Col
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Pumpn'Go
Are these coilovers made in Japan?
Or is that just where you are purchasing them from?
Its just that stuff made in japan usually has better quality control and better steel.I have pictures of coilovers made in China,in one the shaft is bent and yet the other the shaft is broken in two places.the machining is good but the materials aren't.
Any further information on them?
Or is that just where you are purchasing them from?
Its just that stuff made in japan usually has better quality control and better steel.I have pictures of coilovers made in China,in one the shaft is bent and yet the other the shaft is broken in two places.the machining is good but the materials aren't.
Any further information on them?
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Pumpn'Go
Are kits available to rebuild them? how much?
Is there anyone over here that will rebuild them? how much?
For the mx5 the pillowball tops, probably would not have the camber adjustments as it would do nothing,so what are they like?
What are the shock adjustments like?
What warranty do they have?
Are they the same as any other brands that we may already know?, lots of coilovers are made in the one place and branded diferently.
Thanks
Is there anyone over here that will rebuild them? how much?
For the mx5 the pillowball tops, probably would not have the camber adjustments as it would do nothing,so what are they like?
What are the shock adjustments like?
What warranty do they have?
Are they the same as any other brands that we may already know?, lots of coilovers are made in the one place and branded diferently.
Thanks
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RaceSupplies
As i just said in my email to you...
Yes, they are rebuildable. I am unsure on exact cost. I would imagine there wouldn't be a set figure, as until you had a problem and pulled one down, you'd be guessing. They are well made, i am confident you won't need to use the warranty.
My supplier will give a warranry as long as they are installed by a qualified technician. 1 year or 20,000km. He basically wants to ensure they are correctly fitted, not slammed into the weeds, as i already know this will cause damage.
The strut tops will be pillow ball, but without adjustment. Basically a flat alloy plate with pillow ball in the centre.
There are 15 shock settings.
No, as far as i am aware, it is not like D2's, G4's or ISC's, they are not made in the same factory. These are made in japan. Not china.
Yes, they are rebuildable. I am unsure on exact cost. I would imagine there wouldn't be a set figure, as until you had a problem and pulled one down, you'd be guessing. They are well made, i am confident you won't need to use the warranty.
My supplier will give a warranry as long as they are installed by a qualified technician. 1 year or 20,000km. He basically wants to ensure they are correctly fitted, not slammed into the weeds, as i already know this will cause damage.
The strut tops will be pillow ball, but without adjustment. Basically a flat alloy plate with pillow ball in the centre.
There are 15 shock settings.
No, as far as i am aware, it is not like D2's, G4's or ISC's, they are not made in the same factory. These are made in japan. Not china.
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