Engine Blocks

[Fuzzlet]

Im just curious as to whether the block from a 93 model BP fit up to say, an 04 model BP....I have a little project that may begin...

[Garry]

If it's for a road car you may have some RTA issues. You cant put an older engine into a newer car.

[Sean]

Provided you use the correct engine mounts any NA-NB engine will fit easily and quite truble freely into any other NA-NB.

Main issue will be with computers as the different variants of engine all had different ECU controlled functions.

If you are just looking to swap a newer head onto an aolder block, all 1.8BP heads will fit on all 1.8 BP blocks.

[Fuzzlet]

If it's for a road car you may have some RTA issues. You cant put an older engine into a newer car.

Dang....as that was kinda the plan....but I've seen plenty of cars where an older engine is fitted to a newer model...

Provided you use the correct engine mounts any NA-NB engine will fit easily and quite truble freely into any other NA-NB.

Main issue will be with computers as the different variants of engine all had different ECU controlled functions.

If you are just looking to swap a newer head onto an aolder block, all 1.8BP heads will fit on all 1.8 BP blocks.

The plan was to use the bottom end of my engine, and bolt it up to the head of an SE...along with my turbo etc...simply because id rather have 200rwkw in a 2yo car with 40k kms, rather than a 14yo car with 200k kms

[tk421]

If it's for a road car you may have some RTA issues. You cant put an older engine into a newer car.

Dang....as that was kinda the plan....but I've seen plenty of cars where an older engine is fitted to a newer model...

Provided you use the correct engine mounts any NA-NB engine will fit easily and quite truble freely into any other NA-NB.

Main issue will be with computers as the different variants of engine all had different ECU controlled functions.

If you are just looking to swap a newer head onto an aolder block, all 1.8BP heads will fit on all 1.8 BP blocks.

The plan was to use the bottom end of my engine, and bolt it up to the head of an SE...along with my turbo etc...simply because id rather have 200rwkw in a 2yo car with 40k kms, rather than a 14yo car with 200k kms

I hear what you are saying. But depending on whats annoying you about the car as a suggestion why don't you just put a butterfly brace on your NA? (Mark P is stoked with his, as am I on my NB). Additionally perhaps spend some time putting dynamat or similar under the floor to give you some more refinement? All up would cost you less than $1500 would have thought...

[Fuzzlet]

Yes, but its also the fact that ive so far failed 4 emissions tests...the only time we've ever come anywhere close to passing, the car simply wasnt drivable. In the SE, its factory engineered, so when i get checked for defects (which when i used to go cruising was quite often), they'll pop the hood, go \"yep looks standard to me\" and move along

[Sean]

Yes, but its also the fact that ive so far failed 4 emissions tests...the only time we've ever come anywhere close to passing, the car simply wasnt drivable. In the SE, its factory engineered, so when i get checked for defects (which when i used to go cruising was quite often), they'll pop the hood, go "yep looks standard to me" and move along

Perhaps take it to a tuner who has tuned cars to pass emissions testing before?

Nothing against Mania, but they have only had a dyno a year or so, and to my knowledge they usually tune race cars where emissions are not a concern, not exactly specalists in the emissions realm.

[bigdog]

Fuzz, the internals from your car would slide straight into an SE would they not? (I assume yours is a 1. - and the externals would possibly do the same, although you would need to keep it stealth to pass as OE. So, keep the SE block and head, slot in your rods, pistons etc and you'll have the business. Sean's suggestion makes a lot of sense though - and you've already spent a bucketload to get to where you are, and an SE would be another bucketload...

[tk421]

Yes, but its also the fact that ive so far failed 4 emissions tests...the only time we've ever come anywhere close to passing, the car simply wasnt drivable. In the SE, its factory engineered, so when i get checked for defects (which when i used to go cruising was quite often), they'll pop the hood, go "yep looks standard to me" and move along

Ok I see what you mean now. I new you had gone back for another test but didn't realise you didn't make it. That's a real bummer man

I would have thought with the later tech of your full ecu as compared to the factory one that such things (emissions) would be improved. I guess you probably have to run reasonably rich with your current boost levels / state of tune which is upping your HC number.

I must admit that this whole issue is what made me go for the FFS kit in preference to a turbo as its carb approved (install issues notwithstanding). Not being a smart arse by saying that btw, I realise it wasn't an option at the time you started your mods. Obviously its in a lower hp league as well.

Like the others have said perhaps try someone who regularly tunes for emssions. Maybe fitting some emissions gear off a later model such as an NB8A might help if its any different. Consider that an NB8A needs to meet a 0.26hc number, - which mine achieved even though it was on the edge of blowing up. Your year model I think needs to meet a 0.93 hc number (from what I recall of the adrs). The emission control may not be all just in the ecu.

The other thing you might look at is there are LOTS of threads on Miata.net about strategies for passing carb tests, which are far more difficult than ours. People talk about things like new plugs, leads and an oil change the night before the test, giving new cats 1000k's or so to settle in before a test etc. Might be worth your while having a look anyway.

Steve

[Fuzzlet]

To give u an idea on how high the bar is raised in these tests.....the 2006 camry doesnt pass it, and yet it passes the ADR's

I do realise that putting my engine bits into an SE is gonna cost me a bit, but the thing is though, my car in its current form, insured for 30k, but if I was to sell it, I'd be lucky to get 18k. With an SE, I can get it insured for around 40k, and it'd be worth about 30 - 35k to sell (it helps knowing someone who works for shannons).

I've spoken to an engineer about it, and because the engine block is from the same type of engine (ie BP), it apparently wont be a problem. I'd just put the internals of my engine into the SE, but a) My blocks been bored out slightly, to make it a 1.9 (well 1.88 to be more exact ), and b) If I just put the head of an NB8B on there, I can sell the SE engine, turbo etc as one lot, and get some of my money back there.

As for keeping it looking stock, well I'd reuse the IC piping (although put a bigger IC in there). The piping *kinda* hides the turbo nicely, and even then, its a genuine SP manifold + dump-pipe, and the same sized turbo as an SP, so if need be, engineer it as having an SP engine

Just to clear things up as to why I'm thinking of doing this, these are my reasons (in order):
1) No emissions testing required
2) The body shell will have 1/3 of the kms my current car has
3) The rest of the car (eg paint) is gonna be in much better condition than it is now

[tk421]

To give u an idea on how high the bar is raised in these tests.....the 2006 camry doesnt pass it, and yet it passes the ADR's

I agree the test is tough, the fact that they run those fans to make it as rich as possible is just ridiculous (wondered what they were for during my first test). I'm sure the Camry is also subject to an ADR that considering engine size allows it practically no hydrocarbons as well though.

When Tom from FFS ran his 05 MX5 over the Carb test in California it was producing almost undetectable amounts of c02 (in the 0.00 range) but still he had to go back about 4 times with tweaks to get it approved.

I guess I will find out soon enough myself how hard it is to get the post mod approval . Just have to make sure Mania tune it for about 12-12.5 to one for the AFR.

If you can afford the coin for an SE and its going to solve the problem why not I spose..

[Fuzzlet]

I guess I will find out soon enough myself how hard it is to get the post mod approval . Just have to make sure Mania tune it for about 12-12.5 to one for the AFR.

If you can afford the coin for an SE and its going to solve the problem why not I spose..

Mania tuned my car to have an AFR of mid to high 14's, and yet I still failed...and the car was undriveable. The SE is gonna cost me a bit of money after putting the goodies in from my car, but hell once my turbo etc is in, it'll still look stock, so that few extra grand will be a nice investment in not having to get it engineered

[Sean]

I've spoken to an engineer about it, and because the engine block is from the same type of engine (ie BP), it apparently wont be a problem. I'd just put the internals of my engine into the SE, but a) My blocks been bored out slightly, to make it a 1.9 (well 1.88 to be more exact ), and b) If I just put the head of an NB8B on there, I can sell the SE engine, turbo etc as one lot, and get some of my money back there.

I'd be consulting a few engineers on that one. I once fitted an import engine of the same type to a car I woned and had all sorts of issues getting it blue slipped or passed cause it was a non aussie variant (despite the fact it was exactly the same engine).

I'm sure you'll find the RTA will still require a full emissions test on an older block fitted with newer head etc.

You could always do it shonky and just not change the engine number on the SE rego LMAO

I guess I will find out soon enough myself how hard it is to get the post mod approval . Just have to make sure Mania tune it for about 12-12.5 to one for the AFR.

If you can afford the coin for an SE and its going to solve the problem why not I spose..

Mania tuned my car to have an AFR of mid to high 14's, and yet I still failed...and the car was undriveable. The SE is gonna cost me a bit of money after putting the goodies in from my car, but hell once my turbo etc is in, it'll still look stock, so that few extra grand will be a nice investment in not having to get it engineered

It's a common misconception that a leaner car will more easily pass emissions. in many cases less fuel (ie leaner) will HURT emissions.

Take a factory car, most run fairly rich from standard and pass the test, I'm assuming you're only required to pass the IM240 test?

[Fuzzlet]

I'd be consulting a few engineers on that one. I once fitted an import engine of the same type to a car I woned and had all sorts of issues getting it blue slipped or passed cause it was a non aussie variant (despite the fact it was exactly the same engine).

I've consulted an engineer about it, and he said I wont need any emissions testing, so long as it is only the engine block that gets changed. Pistons + rods etc dont matter, so long as the block bolts up alright and none of the emissions control gear gets removed it'll be alright

Take a factory car, most run fairly rich from standard and pass the test, I'm assuming you're only required to pass the IM240 test?

I'm planning on taking the SE, in completely standard form, just for shits and giggles

[Sean]

I'd be consulting a few engineers on that one. I once fitted an import engine of the same type to a car I woned and had all sorts of issues getting it blue slipped or passed cause it was a non aussie variant (despite the fact it was exactly the same engine).

I've consulted an engineer about it, and he said I wont need any emissions testing, so long as it is only the engine block that gets changed. Pistons + rods etc dont matter, so long as the block bolts up alright and none of the emissions control gear gets removed it'll be alright

Like I said, ask a few engineers... I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure.