Piggyback and injectors on the SE

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blackster
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Piggyback and injectors on the SE

Postby blackster » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:49 pm

After months of ECU and tuner hunting, the car has finally undergone a chip and injector upgrade.

It's unfortunate that there are not many tuners that are experienced with turbo MX5 applications (specifically the SE) in sydney. After a fortnight into tuner hunting, you come to the realisation that pretty much all the tuners tend to work on mainstream jap cars (subbies, skylines, silvias etcs.) as thats the niche market.

It has been fun visiting various tuners as you could always notice that pretty much all of them would push the product they had some kind of deal with and in the process write off another brand when questioned about it. In all honesty, only 1 out of 8 tuners did not write off another brand and of the 8, only 2 had some kind of experience with the SE.

Experience working on the SE was a vital selling point, but what i rated the most was honesty. Sifting through the tuners when possing specific questions related to the SE, you could clearly see which tuners like to spin stories.

As far as ECU choice was concerned. Local support was a priority

During my intial endevour into this ECU upgrade, I was adamat on going for full a standalone ECU, as this would give me as much flexibility as far as tunning is concerned. However after seeing the amount of work thats required to get a standalone to work 80% correct and a lack of local support from the manafacturer for many standalone ECUs my mind began to alter.

From my investigation the only standalone for the SE that has local support from the manafacturer is the haltech E8, this is the only manafacturer in NSW that has installed and tested it on the SE. CT race car was the devolpment car. Haltech have also installed and tested the interceptor on the SE, which happens to be Boyracer car.

What finally swung me over from a standalone to a piggyback, was everyday driveability and reliability.

Primarly the car is road dríven at this point, so idle, A/C, alternator etc cannot be better controlled by a standalone for the SE. Secondly I would like to keep the car fairly reliable and driveable, with no intent on huge power gains restricted by fail safes ie AFM, rev limiter and aggressive mapping, the piggyback seems a good option.

So the car has undergone.

Haltech interceptor piggyback
Haltech boost solenoid
Direct drop in 450cc high impedance injectors
NGK 7 1 step colder 7mm Gap spark plugs (wasnt really needed but i really like these plugs)

Dyno runs all in 4th gear shootout. 98 ROM fuel

Base run

135rwkw @ 9-10 psi AFR 11.5 OEM injectors

Stock boost solenoid limit test, with interceptor & 450cc injectors.

154rwkw @ 12 psi AFR 11.5. The stock solenoid only appears to handle upto 12 psi and is not able to hold it very well drops back to 10-10.5 psi at the end of the run.

Haltech boost solenoid, interceptor + 450cc injectors

170.8rwkw @ 14psi AFR 11.5

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Props to:

CT, Boyracer and Ricol for the tunning.
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sprx3
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Postby sprx3 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:36 pm

Haltech boost solenoid, interceptor + 450cc injectors

170.8rwkw @ 14psi AFR 11.5


wow thats a great increase for just injectors & a piggyback, how safe is 14psi with these motors?

11.5 afr's VERY safe so im impressed ....

does the car have any other mods?

good work keep it up
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Re:

Postby blackster » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:55 pm

sprx3 wrote:
Haltech boost solenoid, interceptor + 450cc injectors

170.8rwkw @ 14psi AFR 11.5


wow thats a great increase for just injectors & a piggyback, how safe is 14psi with these motors?

11.5 afr's VERY safe so im impressed ....


From the numerous runs that were done there was no detonation at 14psi, there was about 10-15% left in the injectors before max duty cycle.

There was more power to be made, if the car was leaned out more + aggressive timing, however it would be on limits according to the tuner and i was more then happy not to explore.

Im told that with most TC NB MX5s the first thing to go would be the bottom end on very high boosted applications, not sure if anyone has tested the SE bottom yet and whether or not the bottom end is any different from a standard NB.

I believe that the SE has forged pistons and if chasing more then 250rwhp the rods should be done. The stock IHI TC is only good to about 14 psi after that its becomes inefficient.

does the car have any other mods?


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Last edited by blackster on Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PT
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Postby PT » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:02 pm

That is absolutely sensational!

I would love to go for a run in that.

BTW - are you still at the stock rev limit?
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Re:

Postby blackster » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:24 pm

PT wrote:
BTW - are you still at the stock rev limit?


Yes, there is not much gain after the limiter, the tuner who did my car did CT's as well whos running the E8.

I believe CT's is running to about 6800rpm to keep it safe.
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Postby Garry » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:30 am

According to Keith Tanner from FlyinMiata the SE uses the same bottom end as all NB8B/C's but with NB8A lower compression pistons and head. Which is a bit surprising given the apparent licorice rod reputation in SP's. It could explain the low rev limit Mazda put on SE's.

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Postby 16bit » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:01 am

what injectors are you using? may need some soon!

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Postby Boags » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:23 am

Heck yes. 8)
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Re:

Postby blackster » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Garry wrote:According to Keith Tanner from FlyinMiata the SE uses the same bottom end as all NB8B/C's but with NB8A lower compression pistons and head. Which is a bit surprising given the apparent licorice rod reputation in SP's. It could explain the low rev limit Mazda put on SE's.


Cheers for sharing.

Its hard to know whether or not any SEs have been stripped down in AUS as they are still relatively new, I wonder how the wheelspin SE is going considering thats running 1 bar of boost with the HKS.

PS. If its any concilation id take Keith's word as gospel as opposed to BEGi's.

16bit wrote:what injectors are you using? may need some soon!


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Postby ASE05 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:21 pm

Wow Blackster 8)

That's impressive :lol:
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Re:

Postby Okibi » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:56 pm

blackster wrote:... I wonder how the wheelspin SE is going considering thats running 1 bar of boost with the HKS...


Phil as you and Garry know i've been asking around a bit to try and find out how much boost these engines can handle.

No one has a definitive list of what parts are different from stock.

It seems lots of people have modded their SEs but are still limited by stock ECUs/Injectors/Turbos etc.

Simon's run at 1 bar should be very safe, the 217 kW was over his expectations so the tuner didn't try and wind more boost to see just how much power the engine could make before experiencing knock etc.

There was some discussion on upping the boost (safely) to see just how much power this setup could make.

Unfortunately that would be going into fairly uncharted territory, we might have to follow your lead.
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Postby Fuzzlet » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:57 pm

An A/F ratio of 11.5! Jeez!.....then again heres me with an A/F ratio of 15.5 and still failing emissions (dont worry thats only for the tune that exists while im at the rta haha). I wonder if you leaned it out a little, how the car would behave. Eg when I first got my car turbo'd, it was barely scraping 155kw @ 14psi with an A/F ratio of 11. We started to lean it out a little (for emissions) and got the A/F to 13. The car was running a lot more efficient, coming on boost earlier, and we had to turn the boost control down a little bit......just a thought for u
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Re:

Postby blackster » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:31 pm

Okibi wrote:
blackster wrote:... I wonder how the wheelspin SE is going considering thats running 1 bar of boost with the HKS...


Phil as you and Garry know i've been asking around a bit to try and find out how much boost these engines can handle.

No one has a definitive list of what parts are different from stock.

It seems lots of people have modded their SEs but are still limited by stock ECUs/Injectors/Turbos etc.

Simon's run at 1 bar should be very safe, the 217 kW was over his expectations so the tuner didn't try and wind more boost to see just how much power the engine could make before experiencing knock etc.

There was some discussion on upping the boost (safely) to see just how much power this setup could make.

Unfortunately that would be going into fairly uncharted territory, we might have to follow your lead.


I was at the tuner today, and i had brought up the issue of the bottom end.

My understanding is that he hasnt worked on SE internals, however he was worked on a few SPs, the consensus was that 200rwkw on the SP is achievable however not very safe on stock internals (ie rings, pistons & rods).

I believe there is a certain member on this forum who has SP, im not sure if im at liberty to say, is up around that 200rwkw and changes his rings yearly.

As far my car is concerned with the current set up, the tuner stated that if he wanted to be on limits as far as timming and AFR is concerned, he could squeeze another 10-15rwkw.

More power can be made as the boys from FM are claiming 250rwhp with a standalone ECU, 550cc injectors and a reworked IHI. There problem now is that they have stopped selling reworked IHIs due to failure.

If we are to find out on what exact internals the SE has, I guess CT may know as I believe he is involved in building a SE motor.
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Re:

Postby blackster » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:08 pm

edit
Last edited by blackster on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CT » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:40 am

I'll let you know at the end of the year what the internals look like - I am building another motor up to replace my SE motor - should anything untoward happen. I doubt they'd be anything different to the standard late model BPs though. Just enjoy it Phillip, it should be a good, reliable setup.
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