IRTB's

[irwin83r]

Hit a bit of a snag

Jason at TT Automotive (Used to be Top Tune.....but that's another story) found a problem in his inspection during the install process. Nothing to do with the IRTBS, it was in the valve cover area.

Trying to sort it out, (the mfr has agreed to fix parts gratis, and I promised not to tell)

So all should happen about 2 days in hand of the Mexican Meet Hopefully

progress report??

the red rocket going to fly on sunday?? i cant wait to see this thing in person.. hope alls going well mate.

[Andy Wana]

*Just re-posting the questions before they get lost/unread in the previous page*

A few questions regarding IRTBs/ ITBs since I am getting more and more interested with them:

1. What sort of power/torque gains do the IRTBs offer from a stock engine's point of view?
2. And what sort of advantages does it have over forced induction?
3. Engine wear and tear?
4. Are they road legal at all?

[Rob E]

Andy, they are not comparable at all with Forced induction when it comes to $$ per kw....... The only advantage in a general sense of IRTB is the throttle response. Unless you are running in a certain class, IRTBs are not a decision made with the mind. (Hint - IRTB + ME = trouser tent)

Regarding HP on standard engine.....Depends on IRTB set up. Fuji Racing kit runs well on STD internals......might see 15hp. Key is throttle sizing as well to develop good torque down low. However, if you were going IRTB would at least want some mild cams to take advantage of the added breathing.

[Okibi]

1) It depends on which setup and how they're tuned. Might be worth e-mailing these guys http://www.fuji-racing.com/fujiracing_007.htm they seem to really helpful.

2) Quick throttle response, cheaper insurance, car fits into different racing categories

3) A big more than a standard engine I'd guess, depends on the tuning

4) They can be made road legal with emissions testing and dB testing I'd expect.

The aussie company EFI hardware might be able to answer this questions better.

[slammer]

IRTB's are on, car's not yet running, getting it dyno tuned tomorrow so hopefully we'll see what the results are before Friday


Andy:
1. What sort of power/torque gains do the IRTBs offer from a stock engine's point of view?

Tell you definitively tomorrow, I have a Microtech and Tighe 805C cams so this is the second last engine mod for the 1.6!

2. And what sort of advantages does it have over forced induction?
Throttle response but $perKw you'd go turbo everytime

3. Engine wear and tear?
No difference

4. Are they road legal at all?
depends if you can keep all the ADR stuff with your IRTB's

Post the dyno comparo Friday

Cheers


Slammer

[kula]

eagerly awaiting..

[CT]

Guys, quads are not the naturally aspirated panacea that I think people expect them to be. What they do, is give unbelievable throttle response. This in turn with lightened flywheels and big cams and free flowing heads will make the car able to be dríven quicker - for sure. But this undying search for dyno numbers if a waste of time. I got 5rwkw from an engine that was already doing 118rwkw naturally aspirated. You have to have an aftermarket ECU so you can run throttle position otherwise they won't work. They do sound unbelievable - but are a waste of time if your engine is not modified - it's like the final step to NA heaven...or something like that. Remember the engine is just a pump, when you increase it's ability to take more air, then you need to get more air in - and out of the car. That's really why you go to quads.

That said, Slammer - you will love them

[Andy Wana]

Guys, quads are not the naturally aspirated panacea that I think people expect them to be. What they do, is give unbelievable throttle response. This in turn with lightened flywheels and big cams and free flowing heads will make the car able to be dríven quicker - for sure. But this undying search for dyno numbers if a waste of time. I got 5rwkw from an engine that was already doing 118rwkw naturally aspirated. You have to have an aftermarket ECU so you can run throttle position otherwise they won't work. They do sound unbelievable - but are a waste of time if your engine is not modified - it's like the final step to NA heaven...or something like that. Remember the engine is just a pump, when you increase it's ability to take more air, then you need to get more air in - and out of the car. That's really why you go to quads.

That said, Slammer - you will love them

118 - 123rwkw from a Naturally Aspirated engine sounds great.
What sort of mods (and money) are involved to get those kind of numbers?

The IRTBs interest me (as much as the turbos) because somewhere in the back of my mind, I wanted to keep the NA character of the MX5 should I choose to go for more power
In my humble opinion, trying to wring out as much KW out of the engine on dyno days via turbo/supercharging is like a "my manhood is longer than yours" competition
It won't end till you end up with a handful weekend dragster rather than a driveable daily roadster in your garage

The fact that you may pay less for insurance (for quads) appeals to me as well since I won't drive the 5 without one

It seems that trying to wring out as much fun as possible whilst getting more rwkw would be the go for me (i.e unbelivable throttle response, quad sounds, willingness to go into the redline)

The turbo community are free to correct me on this one since I've seen more Turbo MX5s than IRTB ones

[Andy Wana]

Mark Pakula posted these pics in another forum ... full credit to him for finding these excellent (i.e. sexy) looking engine bay shots of an IRTB system on the 5









I can see the car saving some weight too in the process ...

[slammer]

CT you're on the button again.....the IRTB's were the last on my list but at the price offered I had to jump in

Sorry Mark I beat you by an hour or so

Just to reiterate for those new to the forum here's my na build up over 7 years and probably $7K worth of na mods

And the reason for it is to stay in Class (na <1600cc)

1. Cat back exhaust
2. Loch intake
3. ECU + tune
4. Extractors + tune
5. Cold side intake
6. Cams + tune
7. No Cat (except my luverly pussy @ home) + tune
8. IRTB's + Tune
9. ECU controller (so I can tune on track)
10. Head work pushed back to 2008
11. Was to be hi comp pistons (11:1) now relegated to 2008/9

Total cost far more than my 5 is worth

But hey it'll be on a trailer one day, with a meaty SS Ute towing it to the track

I do not drive anywhere with the car except to the track and back so IRTB's for me are a no-brainer even for 3-5KW especially when Suzuki Swifts pull out and blast past you on the main straight at EC


Hope to redress this situation sometime in the future

Though I'll need to do 10 & 11 to catch that bugger at EC

[Boags]

118 - 123rwkw from a Naturally Aspirated engine sounds great.
What sort of mods (and money) are involved to get those kind of numbers?

Lots of extensive mods and a sheetload of money. I'll let CT explain... Although, he has done so before when the same question was asked, so a search will probably give you some good documentation.

The IRTBs interest me (as much as the turbos) because somewhere in the back of my mind, I wanted to keep the NA character of the MX5 should I choose to go for more power

The NA character is brilliant. I loved the feel of the car before, it was just a little wanting when overtaking and going up hills...

In my humble opinion, trying to wring out as much KW out of the engine on dyno days via turbo/supercharging is like a "my manhood is longer than yours" competition

What if you went turbo for the power increase, and not for the bragging rights? You can have manhood competitions no matter what way you go. I have to say though, turning up to a dyno in an MX5 and expecting to show off the size of your manhood is a bad idea from the start...

It won't end till you end up with a handful weekend dragster rather than a driveable daily roadster in your garage

You have this the wrong way round. Wringing the neck out of NA engines is where you are going to have something hairy that you can't use as a daily driver. The more top-end power you aim for with a turbo, the more dull (increased turbo lag) it feels down low. Turbos are easy to control. You run in vac when the throttle plate is closed and boost can be controlled with your right foot.

It seems that trying to wring out as much fun as possible whilst getting more rwkw would be the go for me (i.e unbelivable throttle response, quad sounds, willingness to go into the redline)

ECU, cams, free-flowing exhaust, quads, light flywheel. It would be a bucket of fun. Pain in the arse in traffic though.

There are benifits both ways. I would not recommend "wringing the neck" of an NA engine though, if the car is primarily for the street.

Boags

[slammer]

Andy here's my dyno numbers
stock 62Kw
I&E 69Kw
ECU 72Kw
Extractors (not dyno'd)
No cat 77Kw
Cams 82Kw

For 7$K you'll get 160-170Kw from an NA6A

I think I'll lget around 3-5kw for $2K whereas the SP boys will get 20Kw for 50 cents

[Fatty]

yep, boags is right (again). just coz you fit a turbo doesn't mean you are going for all out power and bragging rights. for example my car only has 98 kw at the moment, but i got that increase in power a lot easier and cheaper than it would have been to do it NA. and my car is still easy to drive day to day. and i have the option of increasing the power output , for nothing more than the cost of an hour on the dyno, by bumping the boost up a bit.

i have no experince with a highly tuned NA engine, but from what i have read, they are very difficult to live with day to day on the street. i am yet to find a situation where my car has bitten me in the ass , it really is dead easy to drive day to day. altho i must admit i miss the instant throttle response... turbo lag is a bit of a pain but i have shitty boost controller and an old (non ball bearing) turbo, so that chould be improved a bit

[Andy Wana]

Boags, I always have this fear that going turbo meant that I'll have to get more stuffs to cope with all that extra power
Bigger brakes, better suspension, better gearbox, stronger clutch, free flowing exhaust, etc, etc
I suppose the same applies if are getting 120rwkw out of a NA system?

The number one fear is how long my engine will last in a turbo system before I need to rebuild it
By logic, shouldn't a free breathing NA system be better for the engine than a forced induction one?

[Fatty]

well i don't think your gearbox, clutch, diff, suspension, or brakes would care whether the extra power is coming from a turboed or na engine!
my na6 driveline is stock and is handling the extra grunt fine for the time being. the na8 driveline is a lot stronger, and i will be upgrading to many na8/ nb parts in the near future. so you really should be fine.

as for the engine longevity question, i don't know.