Turbo the cellery?

[KIJIMA]

I'm looking for positive re-inforcement here guys. I have a mate who has suggested he can get me a used but in good condition turbo and turbo manifold from a 323 familia for $250. This sounded good to me as I was thinking that I will go down the path of the FFS supercharger, so the question is this. Will it fit, what other goodies will I need, and how much will this all cost me?

What else will I need and would expect to pay are the things buzzing around my head. I'll be doing the install myself with the help of a few technically and mechanically minded mates, Im not looking for a heap of power as I was thinking of running no more than about 8 pound. Also I have some worries about SV-T and the 'suitability' of this style of set-up. Rhis is what I have come up with so far as far as Items I will need:

Dump pipe plus larger zorst if needed $??? Will stock suffice?
Interwarmer $??? Ebay, or maybe somone who has upgraded their SE interwarmer and has their old one lying around. :hint: :hint:
Piping, hoses and clamps $??? Ebay again?
Ecu $??? Piggy-back or fully progamable?

P.S. I want to do this on a budget, so any ideas on cost would be great? as I'm getting a little bit excited at the idea, and its been a long time coming, so (if youre kind enough to help me with ideas, even though I promised everyone a MPS MX-5 in the not to distant future) I'd be very thankfull of any advice I may recieve from people that have been down this path before.

P.P.S Looking for a yeild of 110ish rwkW

[ampz]

Familia is a B6 (1.6) so it won't work

As yours is a 1.8 your best (and cheapest option) would be to mate the SP/SE manifolds to your engine.

It will not be cheap. AVO also make the kits. (Not to mention Flying Miata).

Unless you have someone who is very good at welding, should you attempt to make your own manifold/dump pipes. I would say that form the cat back you can keep your exhaust if you are going to stay with a low boost application. (7psi)

I am unsure of the SVT engined mx5s but an emanage could alter your fuel settings alongside the stock ECU.

www.miataturbo.net will be your best friend here, as they have turboed late model mx5s with success.

I would be putting aside a moderate budget and not expecting much back from $7000

my 2c (and i have been doing a lot of research involving the 1.6 model)

I would not be comfortable putting in ebay manifolds on an SVT 1.8 (unless they're reputable ones).

[Boags]

Unless you have heaps of money or lots of patience, time and knowledge about exactly what is needed, then I would suggest you buy a pre-fabbed kit.

Your budget will blow out if you aren't patient and wait for the right item at the right price.

Your budget will blow out if you run out of time and need to finish the kit quickly.

Your budget will blow out if you buy something only to realise later it isn't going to work.

Buying a pre-fabbed kit will cost more because you are paying for someone else's hard work. (Notice the term - HARD WORK - that is exactly what you are in for if you do it yourself)

I did it myself and went overbudget by almost $1000 and overtime by about 4 months, although the end product is very impressive. Do your radiator FIRST. Do suspension, swaybars and tyres FIRST. Get an LSD FIRST. I didn't and now I can't afford to upgrade for a little while.

Do not trick yourself - as I did - into thinking that this can be done cheaply and easily. I did it for almost half the cost that others did it but still really couldn't afford it. I'm paying for that mistake now.

I don't want to put you off boost, it is absolutely brilliant being able to stomp the loud pedal and feel the power that comes with boost, but you do need to realise there are MANY hidden costs.

I'm sure compliancing a turbo kit in NSW would cost more than my entire setup did too, so that's one more thing to add to your list.

Also add - injectors, gaskets, material to fab the custom bits, bolts clamps, wideband O2 sensor, gauges, wiring, tuning etc.

Good luck, there is a metric feckload of info on turboing MX5s on the net, so use google and visit www.miataturbo.net as much as you can - just don't get into politics with the mods...

Boags

[KIJIMA]

Sorry, the turbo and turbo manifold dont come from a familia which is the B6 in which you are100% correct, its from a TX-3 KH turbo lazer so its a BP-T I've been told. Sorry for the confusion, its the stock turbs and tubs manifold set-up the ford used.

[Fatty]

kijima.... i am tempted to enquire about that familia manifold and turbo , as my girlfreind just bought a '89 323 with a 1.6 in it.

altho she has made me promise that i will absolutely, positively, do NO mods to the car .

but yes, unfortunately it won't fit you car mate. i agree with what has already been posted, altho i don't think you need to worry about all that other stuff that boags mentioned. being a NB, your car is already pretty strong and you should be able to bolt a turbo on without having to upgrade yr diff etc...

but yes, doing it yourself is a long , draining, difficult process. are you up for the challenge? i hope so!

[Fatty]

ah ok... so the manifold should fit.

BUT... and this is a big BUT.... you need to make sure that the turbo is facing the right way , when you bolt the manifold into the mx5. if i am not mistaken , the engine in the tx-3 is east-west, whereas our motors are north-south, so there is every chance the mani will send the exhuast toward the FRONT of the car. obviously, this is NOT GOOD

so i would check that the turbo orientation is correct and that it all fits before plonking down yr cash. if it doesn't it's not the end of the worl as you might be able to cut the flange off and spin it around, and re-weld it. but.... ya know... that could be a bit dodgy.

[ampz]

Sorry Kij...

It still won't fit. The mazda engined lazer turbo manifold put the turbo right where your engine mount is supposed to be. Also due to the position of the exhaust housing end up pointing the turbo dump pipe towards the front of the car.

In answer to your $$ Q's for intercooler and piping...

I would budget (it could be cheaper)...

$250 for an intercooler
$250 for buying hoses clamps and mandrel bends to suit (doughnuts cost about $80 from exhaust shops)
$100 for straight length tubing (i would use 2.5 inch)

Oil fittings will be around the $250 mark (supplied only) but i have had enzed make some for me $400.

Water fittings I have sourced from oversized brake lines and tacked on my own brackets ($150).

Then manifold and dump pipe (the FM ones are dead set sexy at the moment) and turbo will be your biggest outlay.
I cannot stress this enough, and for the money, if i had an NA8 or better, i could not go past the
FM Kit

This kit will put you in those power figures without the intercooler. You should be fine with the cooling in your car as is.
Depending on the condition of your clutch that should be fine too.
Your brakes would be adequate (aren't they comparable to the SP ones?)

At ~ $3500 US delivered, you have a turnkey system with fuel management for your engine!

PS the above prices are what i believe is going at the moment on Ebay, the oil and water lines are from my own experiences turbocharging other makes of cars.

Cheers
Nuno

[KIJIMA]

Boags, you are 100% correct about the timing of the project, and I'd source everything I'd need before fitting it all, plus I have the patience of job. (I've waited this long havent I?) Plus, I havent been driving the car much at the moment. Twice in 2 weeks.

The idea of doing everything myself appeals to me, rather than a bolt on kit that I have just payed money for and have no emotional attatchment too. I want to be able to brag that I have scraped the skin of my knuckles from at least a dozen bolts on my car, and sworn at it in 4 different languages.

I think I am at the next stage in my relationship with my car, and I'm ready to commit, I know its going to be hard, but I think we can both do this without either partner resenting each other.

Thanks guys, I'll be saving this to faves and watching this one.

[Boags]

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/products_miataturbosystems.html#Series_4

If I ever do this again in the future I'm getting one of those...

I admire your spirit Dan, as I said good luck! Follow the build threads on miataturbo.net's diy section and you'll get heaps of ideas. They do talk a lot of sh!t though.

I would strongly recommend an LSD, and I also believe that you will have cooling problems with the stock rad. Just keep it in mind, so you don't get out the other end and not have the moolah to fix a potential problem.

Boost is soooo adictive.

And ampz - I believe the Celery has the same brakes as the SP and all post NB8A MX5s, including the SE.

Boags

[ampz]

That BEGI kit although very nice, I think will be a bit much for 8 PSI IMO.
A T3 on the 1.8!
That would be massive to say the least.
But ooooh so nice.

It's all up to you Kijima.

You will still have a bond with your car if you install a premade kit.

I have built kits from scratch including a red 6 cyl for an EH holden (originally with carbs, but converted to VK commodore EFI afterwards).

I can categorically say that both conversions will make you wish that cars were never invented during one stage or another.

The sense of satisfaction once you turn the key is priceless.

But since you are on a budget, i would go with a kit.

Good Luck.

[Fatty]

yeah don't be fooled into thinking that by getting a kit, it'll be a simple bolt on job that you can do on a lazy saturday afternoon.. it is still a big undertaking, and involves many grazed knuckles etc. mine took many, many, hours to install over about 2 weeks.

[Sheck]

just to let everyone know, familia's came out in 1.8L too, just the later models 92?? and up. They are the GTX models and the GTR models - these ones have a fairly large turbo and all the trick bits inside the motor.

And the mani's should be a t2 flange in which case turning the turbo around wouldnt be a problem - as long as there isnt any clerance issues with the exhaust housing to manifold collectors. But as mentioned by some other ppl the turbo will foul the engine mount - although i'd like to see it before i belived it. I would of thought it would hit the coldside rad hoses, but there are ways around that.

T3 turbo doesnt mean its huge - thats just the flange type you can get them from small to very large you just gotta know all the other specs of the turbo. I have a skyline r32 turbo on my car now which is a t3 flange but its really just a t28 with a bigger exhaust housing much the same as a GTiR turbo although mine is ball bearing and ceramic exhaust wheel.
But yea the big ones Begi use i would of thought would be a little big but hey they done the research.

The GReddy kit will only take you around 8-9 hrs to install it is a very very easy kit to install, but you have the 1.8 so your out of luck on that one pretty much all jap bolt on kits are exactly that bolt on with no mods neccesary. Only the other types, like aussie and US kits, need little mods here and there. Although from a quick glance the begi kits look pretty simple to install.

Rant over
Dave

[Boags]

yeah don't be fooled into thinking that by getting a kit, it'll be a simple bolt on job that you can do on a lazy saturday afternoon.. it is still a big undertaking, and involves many grazed knuckles etc. mine took many, many, hours to install over about 2 weeks.

Agreed.

[zoomzoom]

Right behind you Dave, I was just going to mention the familias came in both 1.6 in the earlier models and 1.8 in the later ones which I think is called the BG series. The turbos on these I believe is some sort of IHI but I am unsure of the flange. The problems with this one are it faces the wrong way(may be able to be turned) but it is a bottom mount, and as mentioned earlier it will likely interfere with your engine mount.

Tim

[tk421]

[quote="ampz"]

and for the money, if i had an NA8 or better, i could not go past the
FM Kit

This kit will put you in those power figures without the intercooler. You should be fine with the cooling in your car as is.
Depending on the condition of your clutch that should be fine too.
Your brakes would be adequate (aren't they comparable to the SP ones?)

At ~ $3500 US delivered, you have a turnkey system with fuel management for your engine!

/quote]

It doesn't sound like you are going this way but I agree, any FM kit (like the FFS kit I just bought) is a well thought out solution. The problem is you can't guarantee any sort of particular $$ outcome as far as doing a personal import is concerned when it comes to customs.

Basically important issues like "which way is the wind blowing, am I in a good mood today, do I even know what the phrase "supercharger" or "turbo" mean" will influence how the customs officer treats your goods.

Not only that but in my case USPS (which is the favoured low cost reliable carrier in the states) decided that one of my boxes was too big even after shipping one before. Therefore it had to come FEDEX which was more expensive (I believe FEDEX is FM's favoured carrier, that's how my butterfly brace got here). In theory you should only pay GST. My experience is that I paid GST and import duty on one box because FEDEX handled it and obviously their customs people had no idea, and paid only GST on the second one because I declared it myself using the correct classification. Also note that the delivery charges FEDEX or whoever levy are included in the customs value of the goods - which obviously increases GST or duty you might pay, they just tack it onto the invoice.

You definitely need to factor in these types of delivery concerns if you end up going a kit. And like the others said, don't think fitting a kit is an easy task. It has been quite a bit of work for Mania to fit mine thus far.

That said if you try to attempt the journey yourself accumulating the parts etc I'm sure you will have a lot of fun, frustration and satisfaction when you get to the end. If you have time and patience go for it. But even then allocate more $$ than you think its going to cost as there will be plenty of surprises in store along the way I'm sure. Good luck whatever you choose

Steve