4k budget turbo build up for 1.8 nb how to?

[Fatty]

nb injectors are 265cc i think ?

all the info you need to know about injectors (and everything else) can be foundhere

[lowmiata]

hey lowmiata, thanks for your input, from what i understand emanage is a pretty good management controller, could you please tell me why you wouldnt use it?

as for turbo i think i'll be going new, ive just had a gt28r quoted from vpw & i can get it for just over 1k so as you said not worth the effort in even looking for a 2nd hand one & wondering if it will be safe.

Ive tried calling avo & they will be returning my call regarding the kits they have so thats still an option.

What injectors would you recommend for the power in looking at without maxing out duty cycles?

what else is there to know?

Why wouldn't I use it?
I wouldn't not use it its just its not the be all and end all!
there are products out there that can do a hell ofalot more!

if AVO quoted the whole kit for 4800 thats a pretty good price!
800 for a cast manifold sure its expensive but its a good bit of gear! you wouldn't find much better on these shores or imported from japan/china

AVO will sell you bits and pieces of the kit you might pay a little bit more for the parts but if you look at getting a GT28r for a thousand from VPW you might save 600 bucks there
Don't buy the exhaust or intercooler and pipes, save again option for a hybrid bigger intercooler and do your own pipe work

Main things I don't like about high rise manifolds systems is they make the engine bay look damn ugly. but thats personal taste

It doesn't look stock and at the end of the day you want to be proud of an intergrated system that looks and functions as it should
Other peoples design intent maybe different some are more based on the absolute $ value and they do what they can do and usually like boags can get a good outcome out of minimal $ spent

many things can be learned from this here forum things you can learn from being other peoples mistakes or not so mistakes but extra costs they have had to outlay because of the way they did something

when I did mine
i had a budget of i think 6g
all done and dusted it was closer to 10g and I hadn't touched the engine internally yet!
the pit falls you have to look out for if you go down the road if intergrating parts make sure that with each part you buy it is compadable with the next other wise you will only be selling it on the forum later

when doing all your intercooler piping don't do it in 2 inch pipe go up to 2.5 so that when you start wringing the neck of your car your not limited by a cost choice you made to stay under budget
even uncle arthers car is done with 2.5 inch pipe from 400mm before the intercooler for upgrades later

dont buy injectors that are just big enough buy bigger ones that will allow adjustment later down the track dump pipes and manifolds are the same
for most aplications a GT28R would be the most normal people would want toput on an mx5 and would support i think quite easily and reliably a 200kw system (with obvious internal work to support same)
this could be done on a avo manifold I belive sean had an avo manifold when his car was producing similar numbers? but don't quote me on that
Mines currently at 125kw on the stock 7psi but I can rest easy knowing everything is safe
I am very happy with the 125 and I am not easily pleased! the max i would look at would be 150 and I would want it reliable! not a tall ask

as for more power wanted what you would do with another 50kw on top of the 150 you already have would be a question of how long do you want your licence
at 125kw i can keep up with a 200sx running slightly higher boost till 3rd gear
stock wrx's are not a chalenge from a rolling 30km/h!
I am biased though as I have recently seen that there is more to life than floging the ring out of your car!
the only time you can get to do it is on a track and who here gets to drive on a race track everyday
what would one do with 200kw in an mx5 in the daily grind?
even spirited driving
if you just want the straight out fastest mx5 then you wana speak to NFS13B! the 1.6 and 1.8 and the mx5 chassis were just never designed to take the copious loads that 150+kw would derive!

definatly have a think about what you want to achieve
1st base is you want to turbo the car

what is the current setup of the car
what other work has been done
what suspension has been fitted
what diff do you have
what gearbox pieces do you have fitted or plan to fit?

all the above would factor in what horsepower etc you plan to run

if you have just bought a stock NB8A then just turboing the factory car at first might seem ok but you would definatly look at suspension first and clutch setup for bigger boost other componentry etc that will be needed for future modifications

most ifnot all people do the FI route after most of the other bases have been covered as doing the more expensive mods usually come later after its paid off/out of warranty!

let us know a bit more about the car and we might be able to help with what you might be looking for or point you in the direction that most suits cost vs user friendlyness!

obviously you are like myself and can fabricate a fair deal of components so I can understand where you are coming from

[lowmiata]

just never designed to take the copious loads that 150+kw would derive!

definatly have a think about what you want to achieve
1st base is you want to turbo the car

what is the current setup of the car
what other work has been done
what suspension has been fitted
what diff do you have
what gearbox pieces do you have fitted or plan to fit?

all the above would factor in what horsepower etc you plan to run

if you have just bought a stock NB8A then just turboing the factory car at first might seem ok but you would definatly look at suspension first and clutch setup for bigger boost other componentry etc that will be needed for future modifications

most ifnot all people do the FI route after most of the other bases have been covered as doing the more expensive mods usually come later after its paid off/out of warranty!

let us know a bit more about the car and we might be able to help with what you might be looking for or point you in the direction that most suits cost vs user friendlyness!

obviously you are like myself and can fabricate a fair deal of components so I can understand where you are coming from

[lowmiata]

if AVO quoted the whole kit for 4800 thats a pretty good price!
800 for a cast manifold sure its expensive but its a good bit of gear! you wouldn't find much better on these shores or imported from japan/china

by this i mean anything you buy of the shelf
custom stuff is a whole nother ball game!
I very strongly condemplated building a exhaust manifold but for the 750 i think i paid I couldn't justify making one against using a proven product!

[sprx3]

if AVO quoted the whole kit for 4800 thats a pretty good price!
800 for a cast manifold sure its expensive but its a good bit of gear! you wouldn't find much better on these shores or imported from japan/china

by this i mean anything you buy of the shelf
custom stuff is a whole nother ball game!
I very strongly condemplated building a exhaust manifold but for the 750 i think i paid I couldn't justify making one against using a proven product!

hey lowmiata,

again thanks for your input

i think if i had to pay 800 for a cast manifold i would make one out of steam pipe the reason i want to buy everything is so the car stays off the road as little time as possible, i dont want to be building the mx5 i want to have some fun in it.

what do you think of the smb cast manifolds? from what i understand these guys helped develop the sp?? (link on first post)

to give you an indication that im not just another young hoon that wants more power then ive ever been in, i'll give you a little bit of my background, my current & previous cars back ground

im the secretary of the mcca (mazda car club of aust) in vic, i like track days, drag racing want to try out some drifting, & go out & have fun in the car (on the track) & still be able to drive the thing everyday.
my previous ride was this.

(this was my for sale add)
oh & i did a lot of the fab & custom work myself

1984 series 3 rx7
ENGINE
12a efi turbo engine, extend ported
Custom & polished s4 13bt intake manifold, throttle body & ask adaptor plate all match ported
AVO bar & plate front mount intercooler
Custom exhaust manifold match ported
Garrett/air research to4b turbo, 58mm front wheel & 1.00 exhaust housing
Turbo smart 45mm external waste gate
4x 12at (880cc) injectors just cleaned & tested
Under car surge tank
bosch 044 fuel pump
Polished malpassi rising rate fuel pressure regulator
Blitz blow off valve
Side mounted s5 alternator polished
Custom top mounted catch can
microtech mtx-8
Bosch coils
16” Davies Craig thermo fan
Custom cooler pipes
Twin belt pulley
Polished custom overflow bottle
& lots more polished items

DRIVELINE
Series 5 rx7 13b turbo box (5 speed) with polished bell housing
Sprung puck clutch
New clutch master
Rebuilt slave
Custom Billet lightened and heat treated flywheel
Custom tail shaft
Shortened Borg Warner 28 spline diff with 4.11 gears & mini spool
tailshaft loop


EXHAUST
3” mandrel bent system with rotaflow resonato

INTERIOR
Red interior
Custom centre console
Stewart Warner silver face boost, oil & temp gauges
RX8 5 speed gear knob
Pioneer deck & 6 stacker with pioneer 6” splits
Battery in boot with isolator switch
Boost controller

OTHER
Hidden wiring with upgraded main fuses
White with factory sunroof
Lowered with 3 different height springs for rear
Hidden water jet bottle

1/4 MILE

Car has run a, 11.5 at 118mph with old high flow set up at 220rwkw
Engine now makes 240rwkw at 18psi & WILL go to 21psi without any problems estimated power at 21psi is 260-270rwkw on PUMP fuel
I am willing to get car tuned to full potential for experienced driver
240kw is enough to scare the sh*t out of most people though
Car should run a 10.9 if not faster.

TRACK
When i built the car, i designed the engine & turbo combo to suit both 1/4 mile & for track work, the car would be lots of fun on circuits, hill climbs & the like. If you wanted to get serious you would want to do some suspension mods, but as a weekend track car it is more then worthy of your local track.

Torque comes through very early as you can see on the dyno graph & its a great street/track/drag car that is very drivable & faster then 99% of the cars you may come up against.

[sprx3]

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[lowmiata]

not a hoon? whats that in the back ground a primer coloured VK? seriously!figured you for more than that!

SMB do make manifolds and they are a good bit of gear and a little cheaper
Sabretooth has one fitted to his car
I am not sure wether they suit T25/28 turbos but they might do two types
(me not sure as only ever seen/played with geoff's)

If you wanted a well thought out system that wasn't going to brake the bank it would probably consist of

the turbo you mentioned for 1000
exhaust manifold 500ish
dump pipe custom made but zero cost fi you are to manufacture
water plumbing couple of speedflow fittings 25 bucks
high temp water hose say 2 metres @ 10 bucks pm
oil line from oil presure source probably allow 50 bucks here again speedflow fittings but hose would be braided s/s
drain system from turbo to sump again 50 would cover it easily
for UA we used a 3.50 brass fitting into the sump
20 bucks for the silicone hose to connect and you might need to fab the drain and flange of the turbo.
if changing cat and muffler allow 5-700
if not the stock one will survive for a while

thats turbo fitted, lubed and gased

next

intercooler(probably the only part I would buy on ebay)
roughly about $250 size you would want to aim for would be 450x300 x75
silicone hose joiners allow i think $3 bucks per inch for 2.5ID
approx 12.5 required 50 bucks + pipe clamps 2.75 each 8 or so required
metre legnth of steel flat bar roughly 6 bucks for intercooler mounting brackets
tubing
can be all done for under 300 bucks or cheaper if you use Mild steel mandrel bends etc cost variable

thats the charge air cooled

injectors from say a gtx turbo familia/turbo Tx3
allow 200 this should see you get them and clean them
clutch HD presure plate etc (blah blah blah) allow 4-500 for all parts and sundries
no labour cost as not a hard job for yourself
diff should be ok for up to 150

thats complete rolling without turning the key
cost
$2941
all realistic prices
(does not include exhaust modifications but includes clutch)

making it run
variable price dependant on which system you use
I don't know what the greddy is worth so cant comment on it!
microtech probably 1800 fitted tuned and drive away(think thats still the going rate)
allow 50 to 100 for the tow truck to the tuner for the install

ther is also wolf or link as well both supported for mx5
then there is the bigger dollar ones like autronicmotec etc etc

so all up $4841

for an mx5 running gt28r
FMIC GTX injectors
MT8 microtech (+450 for the dash unit) if wanted i got one and wouldn't be without it
any of the aftermarket engine managment systems if they support additional display like a dash unit its a worthwhile investment

so all up it can be done for $4841

[lowmiata]

possible places to make savings

intercooler
I have recently fitted a second hand modified intercooler to my truck with fantastic results

i fyou bough a large skyline 32/33 (has to be a calsonic one) buy two for 50 bucks they are more common than the commondore on your drive way!

take the two tanks and use them for on intercooler!
as per my thread in engines and trans forum \"so its not an mx5 but its intercooled\"

this could save you possibly 100

tubing- if you wanted to get real crude you could press bend the whole lot!
M/S mandrels about 1/2 cost of S/S but prone to rust inside
factory m/s pipes are coated inside so see a good powdercoater and you would no doubt solve this problem

this could save you possibly 100-150

injectors you might get them slightly cheaper
$$ for your pocket

take the clutch of of this round of mods and you would see it done for $4000
reliable usefull and totally adjustable for future modifications/setup
all figures are based around all labour content being done by yourself except for ecu install

-1800 off of that and + cost of greddy if that route is desired
one thing with the greddy is I don't belive you get the auxilary input/outputs or the other vital features that you take for granted
ie water temp sensor/thermo fan switching which if greddy is selected will still operate as per normal car whereas with piggy back ecu of substantial calibre you can play with functions and say make your thermo fan run longer/shorter according to engine temp

I think that would be all I don't think I have missed anything
if so I'm sure someone will point it out and it can be added onto the overall cost!

[lowmiata]

respect on the S3 7!
I nearly bought a S3 when i was looking at 5's

what was mazda thinking though with the baby poo brown interior?

as if they thought that was still going to be in the next week after it was released!

[Fatty]

this is all really good advice from lowmiata.

i agree in principal that is a good idea to do it once, and do it right. i have bought used stuff for mine (including the turbo) but if you have the money then sure i agree buy it brand new.

my system will get me going and if / when i decide to up the power a bit, it should be as simple as tuning the ecu and fiddling with the boost settings. i shouldn't need to uprade any hardware as i am using good AVO stuff to start with and i have the engine management and injectors already there. the only thing i might need is a bigger fuel pump, not sure yet.

[lowmiata]

. the only thing i might need is a bigger fuel pump, not sure yet.

there is something i forgot
fuel pump and reg

In the NA 1.6 mine are still easily coping with the boost and don't require changing
I am unsure if it would be the same with NB I would say not and that you would get some gains before changing them (but unknown ground for me)
so cant confirm.!

[Fatty]

quick question for you then lowmiata -

i have 460cc injectors, reckon they can supply enough fuel for 150kw on the stock pump ? i seem to recall reading various opinions on this.

(mine is a na6 btw)

[lowmiata]

ebay parts list
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-FMIC-Bar-and-Plate-TURBO-Intercooler-550x185x66_W0QQitemZ200095380278QQcategoryZ43808QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

even better

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CoolingPro-450x300x76-INTERCOOLER-WITH-3-INCH-INLETS_W0QQitemZ120106794124QQcategoryZ43808QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HKS-Adjustable-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator_W0QQitemZ140105105017QQcategoryZ32094QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sard-fuel-pressure-regulator-BNIB_W0QQitemZ290103630621QQcategoryZ43807QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

PS I dont know how to shorten the links!

[lowmiata]

quick question for you then lowmiata -

i have 460cc injectors, reckon they can supply enough fuel for 150kw on the stock pump ? i seem to recall reading various opinions on this.

(mine is a na6 btw)

the injectors would be fine, but the stock pump would not support/run them
those puppies would need an aftermarket fuel pump
I think mania are now selling the walbro ones?

thats my next mod on the list + fuel presure reg so i can up the boost!
edit just reread my post my gramar sucks!

[Fatty]

whaddaya mean the stock pump won't run them? you mean it won't be able to supply enough pressure to get me up to 150kw ? or it won't run them full stop ? coz it is running them fine right now (not boosted yet tho)