Brake Pad Advice

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:29 pm

G'day

I'm a new-comer who went to his first track-day this weekend at wakefield and managed to have a few braking issues. I've had a 2001 NB8B for about 2 months now and it was still running the Sumitomo brake pads it had when I picked it up. I managed to get a great deal of fade and put about an inch of froth in my master cylinder from boiling the fluid... After melting the 17' Sumitomo HTRZ II street tyres....

I'm looking at replacing the pads, fluid and get some semi-slicks for some 15' rims when I can find some cheap for the next day. I've been ringing around as many places as I can in the Illawarra and am having trouble getting Ferodo DS2500's. Best help yet has been Dapto Clutch and Brake who got through to their Ferodo distributor who didn't know what 2500's were and recommended to Mark at Dapto C&B that I probaly meant 2000's or 3000's and quoted me $140 for the DS2000's. .... He did say if I could get him a part number for 2500's he'd chase them up for me.

I'm just looking for some track pads that are safe to get to and from the track in. I have two cars and the mx5 is pretty much only used on Macquarie pass, Jamberoo pass and now basically any track-day I can get to. My initial thoughts were DS2500's or Hawk HPS. Dust doesnt' bother me, noise is no issue. Just fade free and hopefully not too brutal on rotors if possible. I just want to focus on driving faster without worrying about the car's braking and grip being inconsistent....

Bought a litre of Motul RBF600 from Trever Jordan motorcycles today for $25 a half litre. Every automotive brake place seems to only stock AP racing fluid around here.

I need to find some standard NB8A or NB8B 15' rims before I worry too much about tyres....

Boags · Postby **Boags** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:58 pm

Hi, you seem to know what you're looking for! Welcome to the obsession, and watch out, motorsport is a very expensive addiction! :mrgreen:

Boags

CT · Postby CT » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:57 pm

You can't purchase DS2500s from regular brake guys - they have NFI. You need to speak to www.bsmsport.com.au which is where I used to get mine from - they are very, very pricey but I got 40000klms from my first set doing 14 track days a year. However, you should probably look into Hawk HP Plus in pattern HB431 . They are a decent pad and will be much cheaper than Ferodo even if you have to bring them in from the USA yourself. Mania may also have some.

Here's a special for you, go and speak to Peter at Brakemart in Fairy Meadow and get him to make you up a set of braided lines for the front. They do ADR approved ones and they will help your brake feel. Don't worry about the back ones - they do f-all. While it's there, get them to flush and replace your fluid with the Motul.

The other addition that I highly recommend is a master cylinder brace. I made my own years ago and it made a huge difference. Get someone to press on your brake while you watch it move on the firewall - you will be suprised at the deflection. You can purchase ones from Cusco I believe.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:41 pm

I've got Bendix Ultimates from Repco - talked them down to under $200 for all 4 wheels. Better (smoother, quieter, more progressive) than the Sumitomos for street and you can stand on them all day at the track; no lockups, no fade for me.

Russellb · Postby **Russellb** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:12 pm

I found with the Sumitomo you need to get them realy hot and keep
pushing on the pedal when fade starts.
after that they are great. I had no fade on the weekend with them

But the water temps went over 120 Deg :shock:

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:06 pm

I'm happy to spend upto about $250 for front pads as long as they're worth it. I did notice my rear pads had about %80 meat left still which is what I arrived with but at the end of the day my fronts had lost about 3mm.

I'll send BSM an email now and try and get a quote on some DS2500's, might as well check on the pagid RS14's as well. Mania doesn't have any NB8B brakes listed for hawk other than the blues saying \"all\". Not sure on how diligent they are on updating their site. I contemplated RB74's from mania but after going through the archives here everyone seemed to agree the pedal feel was awful except Jules. If none of those feel viable...down the import road we go.

I'll check the master cylinder when I get home tomorrow, cars booked in for a windshield repair atm, Irwin's semi-slicks kicked up a big rock right as we left the wakefield driveway sunday. Googling I found
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MX5-Master-Cylinder-Brace-improves-brake-pedal-feel_W0QQitemZ290072403208QQihZ019QQcategoryZ55437QQcmdZViewItem which doesn't look too hard to replicate.

I'll call Brakemart tomorrow and see how much front lines are. I'd considered them but was concerned they might put the car out of standard class. Actually I wonder if even a cylinder brace would be fine.

Would you say it was worth having them do the initial flush? I've bled brakes before and know to keep the ignition on for the ABS but I honestly don't have a clue what fluid is currently in it from previous owner and I've not had a need to remove and flush out the lines/cylinder on a car before. If they're going to be able to do that much better a job I'd prefer to let them do it...but I'm not completely useless with a spanner. Would you also replace the clutch fluid with rbf600?

Russellb: I seemed to hover between being able to put the brake pedal to the floor on the second lap, then the tyres being overheated and only being able to use four fifth's the pedal before the ABS was kicking in as the tyres were overcome on the 3rd lap....

CT · Postby CT » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:42 pm

If you decide to get the braided front lines, and you should. Best to leave the car with them, have them make and fit them for you and then flush and refill the fluid with the RBF600. Much simpler for you. The hawks are worth pursuing - ring Mania - you never know. Otherwise try good-winracing or adrenaline racing in the states. Don't be suprised when the DS2500s are more than $250 per axle set. FWIW, a bendix unltimate is a decent road pad, but it's about 100 degrees too low in heat capacity to become a half decent track pad.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:22 pm

CT wrote:a bendix unltimate is a decent road pad, but it's about 100 degrees too low in heat capacity to become a half decent track pad.

Depends where you're coming from CT. I'm running almost standard NA, it's fine for that - but nothing like your monster.

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:17 pm

Had a look at those two US sites while waiting for a reply from Mania this morning and they didn't have the correct Hawk HP Plus pads in stock. Got a reply from mania after and they didn't have any HP plus for the front but they did have a pair of rears, though they have DS2500's in stock for the front( I didn't even ask about the 2500's as they had no ferodo pads listed on the site). $180 for a set of rear HP plus and $160 for the DS2500's on the front. Assuming something doesn't come up I'll pick up a set of DS2500's for the front, an oil filter and the genuine mazda filter wrench....will save me soldering bolts on the end of the standard filters to get the bastards off....hopefully.

Got in touch with Peter, $75 a line and $100 for a flush and install with the RBF600. Going to drop off the car monday afternoon.

tjcool · Postby **tjcool** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:23 pm

yep ive got bendix on the front too
jumped on them hard for about 80 laps of eastern creek with no fade no problems at all

Slugoid · Postby **Slugoid** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:50 pm

$160 for DS2500's!! That's a bargain!! Too bad they don't have DS2500 for NA6 brakes.

I have Hawk HP Plus at the front and they are great, but they do squeal a bit. Yet to test them on track, but from street driving, they have a lot of bite and very little (it at all) fade. Much better than my old Galfer FDT1055 pad.

Hellmun · Postby **Hellmun** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:40 pm

The Front pads ended up being $180 from Mania for the DS2500's. These will normally be $300+. Went up during the expo and picked them up.

Had my Dad stamp on the brake pedal, saw about 7-10mm movement on the master cylinder. Took about half an hour to make up an adjustable bracket that mounts on the standard NB8B suspension tower brace bracket. Now it moves about 1mm and the pedal feels great.

Picked up the car this afternoon, had the brake pads put in with the RFF600 and the front braided lines(Ended up being $125 for the brakepads and bedding in). I was quite surprised how good the 2500's are cold....they're the same if not better than the sumitomo's that were in it. No immediate difference with the fluid change and braided lines in normal driving. Have to wait for the track.

Still not sure if it's worth getting some replacment pads for the rear that are a higher friction low temp pad.

CT · Postby CT » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:42 pm

That's good news Hellmun. If you think the DS2500s are OK on the street - wait until you get them really hot! I'd never upgraded the stock rear pad but with a higher co-eff rear pad your braking will improve again.

BTW, Eastern Creek is not hard on brakes - two big stops a lap. You will get much higher temps at Oran Park where you are on the anchors for 4-5 hard stops per lap - even Wakefield has 3 hard stops with not much track in between.

yjl · Postby **yjl** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:05 pm

The ferodo ds2500 will squel a bit once bedded in. My car now sounds like a taxi coming to a stop at the lights

Boags · Postby **Boags** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:15 pm

Hellmun wrote:Picked up the car this afternoon, had the brake pads put in with the RFF600 and the front braided lines(Ended up being $125 for the brakepads and bedding in).

Can you explain that bit for me please? Do you mean to say you got the fluid changed and braided brake lines installed for $125? I take it the price of the lines weren't included! :shock:

If you don't mind me asking, how much all up? Looks like a good setup.

Boags