SP engine problems

Engines, Transmissions & Final Drive questions and answers

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Postby MX5-SP » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:28 pm

Casey & Bigdog...

I confess I was limiting my response to over-revving caused by too much right foot... ie during acceleration...I never thought about missing a couple of cogs on the way down... :roll:

I used to have a couple of Honda S-600s which used to redline at 9,000rpm... It was easy to overspin them to 11,000 in first when pushed.
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Re:

Postby Boags » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:21 am

THE REAL BORIS wrote:I read that the SE does have different rods and pistons? Not to make a debate on the two models. But, if it is so, why not get the SP and put new rods in? Probably some around better than the stock cars anyway.


Yes, undoubtedly there are better rods available. The point is that they are unnecessary if you are aiming at any less than about 180-200rwKW.

Why spend money on things that can handle what you throw at them?

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Postby sharaleo » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:58 am

Well I've come from seven years in the automotive industry, specialising in selling engine parts to reconditioners and rebuilders around Perth.

In all that time I cannot think of a single motor for which throwing a rod could be considered 'common'. This kind of thing will generally only happen to an engine that has been severely mistreated or abused: ie ran low on fluids or over-reved (probably from down-changing as suggested, as most late model vehicles are fitted with rev-limiters).

Based on requestes for engine parts I used to get, I regard some of the Nissan and Mazda engines to be darn near bullet-proof! SR20's, RBxx's, later B6 variants, and in particular the later BP engines I virtually never sold parts for!

Compare this with the engines that kept many reconditioners in business - Mitsi 4G32, 4G62, 4G63, 4G5x's, 6G72, Toyota 3SFE, 5SFE, Holden/Opel 16LE, 18LF (and any Daewoo variants!), Holden V6, Falcon 6's, etc, etc...I don't even want to talk about some of the Nissan and Toyota diesels!! ;)

Admittedly, while a few of these engines can certainly be considered over-represented in the market (4G54's for example have been in various forms in Sigma's, Magna's, Triton's, Pajero's, Canter's from the late 70's through to the early 2000's, the fact remains that after a few years you develop a soft spot for certain engines from certain manufacturers - and the later Mazda BP's are one for me.

Am I concerned about the liklihood of my stock SP throwing a rod during 100,000k of 'spirited' driving with the odd track day? Not in the slightest! I'd be more concerned for the life of the turbo over that length of time... :D

Keep it in good knick, service and replace the fluids regularly and I highly, highly doubt you would ever have a problem with the bottom end.

Having said that...I agree entirely that if you were chasing HP figures, then make the investment in at least pistons and rods. Remember, unlike the SE (which will definitely have different rods and pistons), the SP is of course essentially a stock BP with a turbo bolted on, so it lacks the preferred lower compression pistons usually seen in this application and you're never going to see 20+ pounds of boost like some of the WRX drivers!

I would tend agree that a reliable 160-180rwkw would probably be around the most you could hope for from a stock SP, just by modifying boost/intake/exhaust/fuel/timing. Any more than that and I'd say you would simply be pushing too much boost and be unable to create a reliable tune. This of course, will induce engine knocking and pinging and result in damage to the motor, although I'd still say you're far more likely to put a hole in a piston, or crack some ring lands before you risk putting a rod through the block.

Now if you completely screw up your water injection and manage to hydraulic lock the engine, then you might throw a rod... :D

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Postby Blue94t » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:58 pm

I am running a GT25 @ 15psi through a standard unopened 1.8 in a 94 Clubman. According to the previous owner the car has been running the turbo for about 40,000 kms and it is making 160rwkw according to the dyno sheet that came with the car.
I run Shell 100 octane fuel as a rule, BP98 octane if I can't get 100. I have never had detonation which is the main reason I think the engine is still so healthy. Obviously the ecu map is very good for power, cruise/trailing throttle needs some work to be anywhere near oem however.
I will be doing a dyno run in the near future before I start mods and will post the results.
A new ecu is planned as well as a new dump pipe, i/c pipes, intake, and a plumb back bov to replace the current one.
I intend to boost it up to 18psi fully understanding it may blow up as it gives me an excuse to build a new motor with forgies/better rods.
I am curious to see how it will hold up as this is the first bp engine I have played with.

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Postby jules » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:25 pm

I might be wrong, but that doesn't seem like a lot of power for such high pressure? 15psi?

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Re:

Postby Sean » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:41 pm

jules wrote:I might be wrong, but that doesn't seem like a lot of power for such high pressure? 15psi?

Jules


DO you mean such a low pressure ? LOL

I sus[ect this is the old apilson/RobE/rxmx car, if that is teh case, I can confirm it has made the power claimed at the boost (or very similar boost) as claimed.
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Postby Blue94t » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:56 pm

Jules,
It is only a little GT25, rated at 320hp I believe.
A new turbo is also on the cards for next year.

Sean,
Thats the one, I suspected the figures where pretty accurate. It certainly goes well and is a very torquey set up pulling hard from 3krpm all the way to the limiter.

Jake

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Re:

Postby jules » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:14 pm

Sean wrote:
jules wrote:I might be wrong, but that doesn't seem like a lot of power for such high pressure? 15psi?

Jules


DO you mean such a low pressure ? LOL

I sus[ect this is the old apilson/RobE/rxmx car, if that is teh case, I can confirm it has made the power claimed at the boost (or very similar boost) as claimed.


Haha, had a blonde moment there. Nice car. I had a quiet think about that one a few months back when it came up for sale. So much car for so little $$$


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Brian
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Postby Brian » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:50 pm

I have ventiated the block on one of my race cars but that was through a 10,000 rpm overrev through a missed gear on the up change at 8,500 rpm. It was a 1.8 NA engine. I lasted one lap after the overrev and then went spectacularily.

On the turbo race car we have replaced the rods and pistons mainly for lower compression so we can get reliability. Had a few piston problems when we first started.

My road SP was abused as a child by the press and then a few track days by me and again was going strong when sold.

I haven't heard of an SP doing rods.

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Postby Hammer » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:05 pm

Just got my SP back in Feb after bending a conrod in December. 1 Month outside the factory warranty (4yrs).

A month before this happened, they replaced my Turbo and Catalyc Converter (under warranty).

A month later, the conrod got bent. Mazda claims its nothing to do with their repairs. Anyway, Mazda agreed to cover 80% of the repairs. But that still left me with about $1500, not including the $550 for towing.

The cause they provided me was, oil soak through the combustion chamber covering the air/fuel sensor. Thus given the wrong mix reading. This in turn caused the fuel to lean out and increased the heat to the point it soften the conrod for it to bend.

Anyway, it kinda removed the polish of my admiration for the car. It's a love/hate relationship.

The good news is, the engine has been fully rebuilt with new internals. So kinda giving me a younger engine than the car's age of 4 1/2 years.
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Postby Boyracer » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:42 pm

Oh...the old soft con-rod excuse...

Piston would melt way before anything would happen to a con rod. :roll:
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Postby Garry » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:54 pm

What are the symptoms of a bent conrod? I know what happens when one breaks but is there something to look out for before it goes bang rattle rattle rattle?

Oh, and what BR said. Sounds like Mazda BS to me. If my car was only 1 month out of warranty with lowish km like yours Hammer I would have been pushing for Mazda to be footing the full bill. If they can short change me 3 weeks on my factory warranty because of dodgy dealer practises then they should easily be able to extend yours by a month to cover a catastrophic engine failure.
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Postby AJ » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:03 pm

oh dear, that's a classic line of bullsh*t if i ever heard one hammer :roll:
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Postby bigdog » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:48 pm

What Lou said Hammer... if the engine leans out you'll melt a hole in the piston (aluminium) long before you'll soften a rod (cast iron). Mazda are full of crap - I'd be going back and getting my money back :evil:

I have seen the bent rod that holed an SP block recently and have to say that I am not sure what might have caused the problem - a number of theories have been raised but no-one can say for certain. I still favour the over-rev on missed gear change being the most likely one, but it could well be that the rod strength is marginal on some SPs. Once you have a few years and 100,000km+ on the car it is only academic anyway. I wouldn't rush out and put stronger rods in 'just in case' but if I had to rebuild for any reason at all I think it would be sensible to do so, but then where do you stop.... :roll:
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Re:

Postby Hammer » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:11 am

Garry wrote:What are the symptoms of a bent conrod? I know what happens when one breaks but is there something to look out for before it goes bang rattle rattle rattle?


From symptoms to whoa, all happened overnight...

I started noticing things under accelaration halfway to my parents place in Nelson Bay. While on the F3, it started feeling sluggish and rough - more noticeably at higher revs (not redline mind you, just over 5000rpm). On a constant 110kph @ about 3300rpm, it was ok at that stage. But I did also noticed while stationary, idle was rough.

Then the next day while exiting my street, I hit the gas, then boom!!! Midway accelarating, was a big jolt to the whole car, immediately followed by a (very) loud clutter, clutter, clutter sound.

At first I thought it was bent or stuck valves which was hitting the piston as it rotated up.

So I didn't get much noticed from the moment the symptoms started happening to when it failed.
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