How do you heel-and-toe?? noob question

Postby **Okibi** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:10 pm

\"You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake! You almost had me?\" :lol:

marcusus · Postby **marcusus** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:52 pm

Yeah, I'm not disputing that double clutching is basically unecessary these days. My only point was the proper technique of double clutching & heel toeing.

Meanwhile, I thought a heel toe implied double cluthing? After all, what's the point if you don't double clutch in the heel toe? Revving the engine if the clutch is still in would do nothing in that case? Your car certainly doesn't go any faster. And since the clutch hasn't been released, the revving doesn't actually match anything engine speed wise?

MX5-SP · Postby **MX5-SP** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:09 pm

marcusus wrote:Yeah, I'm not disputing that double clutching is basically unecessary these days. My only point was the proper technique of double clutching & heel toeing.

Meanwhile, I thought a heel toe implied double cluthing? After all, what's the point if you don't double clutch in the heel toe? Revving the engine if the clutch is still in would do nothing in that case? Your car certainly doesn't go any faster. And since the clutch hasn't been released, the revving doesn't actually match anything engine speed wise?

As stated in previous comments... there's no real need to double declutch in an all-syncromesh gear-box. I guess I do it more for effect than any real need, although gear changes do feel a bit smoother than just a straight change down. T&H & D-D-D/Cing allows you to maintain consistant braking when changing down gears, as opposed to having to release the brake to blip the accelerator in just a straight-forward D-D/C (which necessitates having to release the brake and blip the accelerator).

I guess another reason I prefer to do both T&H & D-D/C is that it gives me an extra opportunity to blow some more soot in AJs direction...

marcusus · Postby **marcusus** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:14 pm

I do it more for the smoothness factor than anything else. I'll occasionally pull one around a corner to get more exit speed, but not often.

Oh well. All cleared up for me anyway. I'll still keep doing it.

Postby **Okibi** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:30 pm

Blipping the throttle on down shift.

(I know these figures aren't accurate)

Say your car does 50km/h in 4th gear at 3000 rpm
and your car does 50km/h in 3rd gear at 5000 rpm
and your car does 30km/h in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm

If you were to change down without blipping the throttle from 4th at 3000rpm to 3rd (still at 3000 rpm) you car would suddenly lurch as the gearing would try and slow it to 30km h.

The driveline would also take extra pressure as it tries to slow your car down 20 km/h.

Using the above table..

If you were to change down WITH \"heal toe\" blipping the throttle from 4th at 3000rpm to 3rd, you would take the car out of gear, blip your throttle so that the engine revs climbed to 5000 rpm then change into 3rd and keep going at 50km/h.

This way the car would only loose power for a second and remain as balanced as possible.

I hope that was clear enough for some of the users of the forum who may still be confused.

I use \"heal toe\" down shifting everyday, even in mums bunky 121.

Double De Clutching is used to get that next gear spinning in the gear box to reduce the wear on it when you change into that gear.

marcusus · Postby **marcusus** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:24 pm

Makes perfect sense

Boags · Postby **Boags** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:43 am

Okibi wrote:YES! toe on brake, heel (or side of foot) on the accelerator.

It doesn't matter so much if your foot slips off or misses the accelerator but you must have full control of the brake.

My Datsun race car has a crap accelerator pedal, so I have to heel the brake and toe the accelerator up the top of the pedal... :shock:

Bloody datsuns...

Boags

marcusus · Postby **marcusus** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:34 pm

Serves you right for having a datto

Boags · Postby **Boags** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:38 pm

marcusus wrote:Serves you right for having a datto

Touche'

Postby **Okibi** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:07 pm

At least it wasn't an IMP :mrgreen:

Benny · Postby **Benny** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:14 am

In case you didn't know, your synchros work with friction.
They actually try to match the speed of the input and output shafts of your gearbox when you change gears.
Obviously, anything that works on friction will wear out eventually, and DD/C'ing will lessen the wear on your synchro rings, if you DD/C properly.
You don't have to do it, just like you don't have to stop smoothly, but it does make for smoother driving, and less wear and tear on your synchros.
Not only that, but DD/C'ing on down changes will also make the changes FASTER (and smoother) than pushing against the synchros and waiting for them to mach the speeds of the input and output shafts, as you are doing their work for them, and the engine revs quicker than the synchros can.

I used to have to use my heel on accelerator and toe on the throttle when H&T'ing, but that was only in an old Holden I once had where the brake and the throttle were miles apart from each other.
Otherwise, it's toe on the brake and side of the foot on the throttle.