How do you heel-and-toe?? noob question

MX5 Car Clubs of Australia

Moderators: timk, Stu, zombie, Andrew, The American, Lokiel, -alex, miata, StanTheMan, greenMachine, ManiacLachy, Daffy

can you heel-and-toe?

Yes
28
68%
No
13
32%
 
Total votes: 41

User avatar
Alex
Racing Driver
Posts: 1654
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:54 am
Vehicle: NB8A
Location: Sydney

How do you heel-and-toe?? noob question

Postby Alex » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:22 am

as the topic states, I don't know how to heel-and-toe yet, as posted in another thread I've been driving manual now for about 1 1/2 months (dríven and auto for 2 years) and I think it's time I learnt how to heel-and-toe so
What does it really involve??
When do you use it??
and most importantly
Whats the best way to learn???

User avatar
Andy Wana
Fast Driver
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:16 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2 GT
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Andy Wana » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:06 am

A heel-and-toe downshift refers to a specific technique used to downshift a manual transmission car. It might seem bizarre to the general populace, but racecar drivers use it all the time. Once mastered, the heel-and-toe downshift offers the benefits of reduced vehicle wear-and-tear, better driver control and faster lap times on a racetrack.

The heel-and-toe downshift is a rather complex action involving both of the driver's feet, the driver's left hand, all three vehicle pedals and the gear shift lever. The purpose of the heel-and-toe is to smoothly match engine speed to wheel speed.

Here is a step-by-step guide on how to heel-and-toe downshift. It will explain how to shift from fourth gear to third gear, though the technique will work for any downshift.

1. Begin braking for the corner with your right foot. The location of the pedals and the size of your foot will dictate where you position your foot on the pedal, but most likely it should be canted a little to the right, closer to the throttle pedal.

2. Push in the clutch with your left foot.

3. This is the hard part. With your right foot still applying pressure to the brakes, roll the outside edge of your foot outward and downward to touch the throttle pedal. The pedal design on some cars makes this easier to do than on others. Use the outside of your right foot to blip the throttle. Blipping the throttle means temporarily raising the engine rpms to match the wheel speed. The exact amount of revs needed is dependent on a variety of factors, but it is usually between 1,000 rpm to 2,000 rpm more than the current engine rpm for a one-gear downshift.

4. Move the shifter to third gear.

5. Release the clutch with your left foot.

As you can see, \"heel-and-toe\" is a misnomer. It actually involves the ball of your foot and the side of your foot. We'll be the first to tell you that heel-and-toe downshifts aren't easy. We've found that a good way to practice is to just sit in your car in your garage and pretend you are doing a heel-and-toe downshift with the engine off. Keep repeating the steps until you are familiar with the process. Once you are ready, try it out for real. Most likely, your early attempts will be botched. Keep trying, though. Practice each step slowly and then work your way to making them all one, fluid motion. Skilled drivers can execute a heel-and-toe downshift in less than one second.

The trickiest part is getting the correct amount of rpms to match the new gear. If you blip the throttle too much, the engine has too much speed compared to the wheels and is forced to drop down to the wheel speed when you let out the clutch. If you don't blip the throttle enough, the engine rpms are forced to rise up. Either way, you know you didn't do it right as the car will jerk a little.

You'll also know it when you did it right. A proper heel-and-toe downshift is so smooth and so satisfying that, once done correctly, you'll find yourself using the technique all the time. The great thing is that you don't have to be a racecar driver or be on a racetrack to use it. Additionally, using the heel-and-toe downshift technique on the street can improve safety. In certain emergency situations, you might be required to brake heavily and then accelerate quickly. By heel-and-toe downshifting, your car will be in the best gear to achieve maximum acceleration.
I ♥ asymmetry

User avatar
idb000
Fast Driver
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:54 pm
Vehicle: NB8B
Location: thehills.syd.nsw.au
Contact:

Postby idb000 » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:49 am

You can also have a look at the following link, it has some good info.

http://www.trillium-bmwclub.ca/site/page.jsp?pageid=121
2001 Black MX5 NB8B
http://www.idb000.com

Moggy
Fast Driver
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:30 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2 GT
Location: Brisbane

Postby Moggy » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:28 pm

When I was learning this I found the hardest part was maintaining a constant braking pressure while blipping the throttle. Also I found the easiest way for me was to flick my right heel outwards at about a 45deg angle and hit the throttle with the side of my foot.

When you start learning it, do it on every single corner. After a few days of feeling a bit weird, you'll start to feel comfortable with it, and after that you'll do it without even thinking about it. :)

NMX516
Speed Racer
Posts: 2057
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:05 pm
Vehicle: NB SP
Location: Brisbane

Postby NMX516 » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:45 pm

I find that the 'right shoes' can make a difference too. My joggers and steel cap boots seem to get a bit caught up on the accelerator pedal at times, because of the heavy tread design on them. Smooth sole shoes, or those with minimal tread are the best for heel-and-toe-ing in my opinion. Thinner soles also help with the 'feel' of what's going on.
Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever.

User avatar
Rocky
Concerned Citizen.
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:42 pm
Vehicle: NB8B
Location: Queensland

Postby Rocky » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:14 pm

Do racing drivers still use this technique?
The one & only time I have ever been on a track (2 laps of Caboolture Speedway 1977 in my Fiat 124 sport) I noticed that I was the only one doing it. (maybe its not appropriate for dirt?) None of the quick people used it at all.
Image
Foundation Member: Grumpy Old Bastards Club.

User avatar
CT
Racing Driver
Posts: 1418
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NB SP
Location: By the lake...
Contact:

Postby CT » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:46 pm

Yes.

You have to if you want your gearbox and diff to last more than one session. 8)
2006 Z06 Corvette - 650hp of wow!

User avatar
Charlie Brown
Speed Racer
Posts: 2623
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NC
Location: Sydney, Just out of Dragon Territory over the bridge in the "Shire"
Contact:

Postby Charlie Brown » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:36 pm

I do it all the time.
Since I've come from an age where syncros wore out after a couple of thousand miles it was a necessity to learn how to heal toe from an early age.
Now I do it without even knowing it. It’s become second nature.
Mind you heal toeing is different from double de clutching.
Image

Wakefield 1:09.13 Eastern Creek GP 1:50.198 Ext 2:17.538 Sth 1:02.9003
Phillip Is 1:58.50 Winton Short 1:10.7 Lakeside 1:05.7711 MDTC 45.20

Roodosutaa

Postby Roodosutaa » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:58 pm

Been doing it since I was on my L's - dad taught me. Oh how time flies.

In fact the only time I didn't heel-toe/double declutch was when I was taking the driving test, dad didn't think it was a good idea :)

Other than it being a second nature - every time I'm forced not to do it (eg not enough time/space) I felt like I was doing something \"wrong\" - like causing extra wear on the synchromesh, even though the wear must be minor.

User avatar
Caffeine
Racing Driver
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NB8B
Location: Sydney

Postby Caffeine » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:50 am

Heel - toeing allows you to maximise engine braking while also saving wear on the clutch.

Double (de) clutching saves wear on the synchromes as well, but it's generally slower, and more complicated, but also more fun :D
Image
Supreme Blue NB8B, 1:16.98 at Wakefield when stock, but it's not stock any more...

User avatar
Benny
Speed Racer
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NB SP
Location: Gorgeous Sydney
Contact:

Postby Benny » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:06 am

I always double de-clutch when I heel and toe.
Not much use heeling and to-ing otherwise, as to get the maximum benefit of your efforts, you want to restrict the need to use the synchros as much as possible, because they slow the gearchange down.
Getting the revs just right makes the shifter glide into the lower gear almost by itself and when you release the clutch, there is less strain and shunting on the driveline too.
Learning how to double de-clutch correctly can actually speed up the down-change time and also makes for much smoother downshifts when going up hills for example.
Double de-clutching is also the way you learn how to change gears without using the clutch - and not blowing up your gearbox.
Image
ALWAYS RUNNING, SP with Bilstein Coil Overs and Doof Doof sound. Member of the Fat Bastards Racing Team

SLash

Postby SLash » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:14 am

I think my feet are 2 big, I've tried this many a time to get this to work, and I just don't think theres enough room in the footwell.

I also find that the brake pedal is out a fair bit further in my NB.

I'm sorta using the next best thing.... brake before corner, change pedal and blip accelerator, change gear, then either keep foot over accelerator to get ready to accelerate out, or move back to brake if required. It does the \"same\" thing, just a little more messy. It also tends to be a little jerky at times....

-B

User avatar
Benny
Speed Racer
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NB SP
Location: Gorgeous Sydney
Contact:

Re:

Postby Benny » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:16 am

SLash wrote:I think my feet are 2 big, I've tried this many a time to get this to work, and I just don't think theres enough room in the footwell.

I also find that the brake pedal is out a fair bit further in my NB.

I'm sorta using the next best thing.... brake before corner, change pedal and blip accelerator, change gear, then either keep foot over accelerator to get ready to accelerate out, or move back to brake if required. It does the "same" thing, just a little more messy. It also tends to be a little jerky at times....

-B


I have an NB and I also have size 10 shoes, and have no problem with heel and toeing, even in wide shoes.
Just need to work out the technique.

For anybody in Sydney, I'll be happy to show you how to do it.
Just send me a PM.
Image
ALWAYS RUNNING, SP with Bilstein Coil Overs and Doof Doof sound. Member of the Fat Bastards Racing Team

User avatar
ducktape69
Racing Driver
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:57 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2 GT
Location: Sydney....Westside

Postby ducktape69 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:17 pm

heel toeing is fine in an NB...

i usually just double de clutch for the simple reason i can do it faster and its more FUN :)
BLECK 2002 Mazda MX5 NB8B. Custom Heatshielded CAI . KYB AGX's + King Springs. 17\" Bleck Rims. Custom BASSSS Install.

User avatar
Caffeine
Racing Driver
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NB8B
Location: Sydney

Re:

Postby Caffeine » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:30 pm

Benny wrote:I have an NB and I also have size 10 shoes, and have no problem with heel and toeing, even in wide shoes.
Just need to work out the technique.


My size 14's work ok in my NB too :)
Image
Supreme Blue NB8B, 1:16.98 at Wakefield when stock, but it's not stock any more...


Return to “MX5 General Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 163 guests