Had some work done by Mania on my SP

[Benny]

I believe the ECU is a custom ad on unit developed by Walter.
RWKw went up by around 35kW in total, with big gains above 3500 rpm.
But the low down torque is sensational too.

Revs like a well-oiled sewing machine too.

Did they ditch the MAF and fit a MAP? That seems to be the root of any drivability issues. So you must be at 160-170kW ATW now?

Cost? I'm still thinking of getting the Autronic fitted to mine.

Correct Casey.
It now has a MAP sensor, as well as couple of other sensors fitted n different locations.

Mrs Benny drove the car for the first time today, and she rang me to tell me how well the car is going.
She loves the smoothness of it now.

Unless you are an expert with tuning an Autronic on the dyno, and know MX-5 engines, I wouldn't attempt to fit and tune a new computer myself.
Walter at Mania is an expert, and he does such a good job, why would you want to frig around with it yourself and poosible cause damage to the engine?

[Sean]

I believe the ECU is a custom ad on unit developed by Walter.
RWKw went up by around 35kW in total, with big gains above 3500 rpm.
But the low down torque is sensational too.

Revs like a well-oiled sewing machine too.

Curious to know if Walter is now doing all of Mania's tuning or if he only gets involved when his own ECU is being used? Thier website quotes $150 an hour for dyno tuning which is quite cheap given teh results WAlter has had in teh pst, particularly with quality driveability like all his customers report.

[bigdog]

To add to Benny's report i drove Dave's car last weekend in High Booooost Mode (attained by flicking the OMG switch ) with its fresh and very heavy clutch... WOW!! a fabulous rocketship!! Walter's ECU has been on Dave's car for ages now but until recently clutch slip has hindered any comparisons. Only the heavy clutch makes me hesitate (well maybe the $$ too!) It is a very impressive bit of work... all it needs now is for Dave to let me settle it all in at Wakefield for a day

[Casey]

I believe the ECU is a custom ad on unit developed by Walter.
RWKw went up by around 35kW in total, with big gains above 3500 rpm.
But the low down torque is sensational too.

Revs like a well-oiled sewing machine too.

Did they ditch the MAF and fit a MAP? That seems to be the root of any drivability issues. So you must be at 160-170kW ATW now?

Cost? I'm still thinking of getting the Autronic fitted to mine.

Correct Casey.
It now has a MAP sensor, as well as couple of other sensors fitted n different locations.

Mrs Benny drove the car for the first time today, and she rang me to tell me how well the car is going.
She loves the smoothness of it now.

Unless you are an expert with tuning an Autronic on the dyno, and know MX-5 engines, I wouldn't attempt to fit and tune a new computer myself.
Walter at Mania is an expert, and he does such a good job, why would you want to frig around with it yourself and poosible cause damage to the engine?

Dave and Russ at Carco have plenty of experiance with the Autronic on SPs - the black one that Garry has dríven as well as Pilsner and Turbo Girl's SP replica road/race car. They also tamed an unruly M62 supercharged NB8B by fitting an Autronic.

Russ and Dave's own cars are both fitted with Autronics. Russ's is a turbo Clubman making serious power given its simplicity, and Dave had an Autorotor fitted to his NA6A on a fully built motor (which is now giving way to a turbo as well afer some serious noise and belt slippage issues).

I guess I just prefer a proper high quality ECU to a piggy back, and in reality you could do serious damage with either in the wrong hands. Good to hear yours is going well, and I look forwards to seeing it at the Triple Treat.

[MX5-SP]

...speaking of SP's, whilst cleaning up some pics i came upon this pic i too during my tour of the then Tickford factory in 2002 -



Yes its the birth of an SP.

Common silver - could be anyones .

BTW it was Prodrive who won the contract, not Tickford. (Okay - Prodrive brought out Tickford and use the ex-Tickford facility to do the work, but Prodrive has so much better cachet then Tickford )

That could have been my old SP

...BTW Casey, did you also notice the other "common" black SP in front of it?

[Garry]

Caedrus,

The \"T-piece mod\" is simply a cheap, easy means to increase boost. It compensates for the boost pressure losses caused by the intercooler and pipework by taking the boost pressure measurement for the wastegate actuator (gold cylinder on the turbo) after the intercooler. Typically you will see 1 to 1.5PSI increase in boost at the engine compared to taking the boost measurement at the turbo outlet.

The downside to it all is that it's a fixed increase, ie the increase you get will depend on how well the intercooler and pipework flows. If your pipework is less restrictive the boost increase will be lower and vica versa. There is also a slight delay to the way the boost pressure is controlled because the boost needs to go all the way to the throttle plate before it can work the wastegate actuator. As it is in the stock setup the boost is controlled a few inches away from the wastegate actuator at the turbo outlet.

If you were going to the trouble of replacing the ECU you would be better off installing a proper boost controlling mechanism so that you could set the boost to whatever level you want the car tuned for which may include several different switchable boost levels, ie high/low boost.

[Garry]

From what I understand, the boost is set at 8PSI, and the T-piece will send it, as you say, into the 9-10 PSI region.

My question is, from the experience of SP owners - indeed all turbo owners - what boost level is consistently drivable and safe for the SP setup?

I think stock boost is closer to 7PSI and the T-piece mod will push it up around 8-8.5PSI. But SP boost levels vary a lot from car to car for some reason. From the guys that have done the mod then had their car dyno'd the A/F ratios seemed quite respectable at the higher boost settings. The stock SP A/F ratio is extremely rich so generally it copes easily with a little bit of extra boost.

My car however, being as \"special\" as it is couldn't cope with more than 7PSI until I got the Chiptorque mod done to the ECU.

[Benny]

Hi Caedrus, to answer your questions:
1. Yes
2. The T piece was removed as the boost is now sensed somewhere else.

The T piece mod did increase my performance, but there is also a cost in driveability.
As you've probably noticed with your SP, if you try and feather the throttle while the engine is under boost, it jerks as if the air flow was suddenly stopped.
With the T piece, this gets worse, and you can't really feather the throttle while the engine is in positive boost, without the car bucking and jerking.
If you never have to retard the throttle while cornering, it's OK - but life isn't like that.

The mods that Mania did, inprove the driveability quite markedly, and even my wife commented to me how much easier and smoother the car is now compared to what it was before.
I could have had a switch put in, but after driving it, I didn't think it necessary as the car is now so smooth and easy to drive.
If you didn't put your foot down, you'd think you were in a normal MX-5.
However, when you do put your foot in it, and let it rev, the power is fantastic, but there is no sudden bang, just an unstoppable surge of power.
I had a young lady in the car a few days ago, and when I put my foot down, she squeeled!

Mania had my car for about a week, as they wanted to run it on the dyno a number of times to get the tune just right, and for the cold start set-up, they need to have it overnight a few nights to make sure it is running right.
Apart form the car taking a little longer to start, due to the bigger injectors, the car runs like a dream, and like the way the standard car should have come from the dealers.

My car had around 7.5lbs of boost as standard, which went up to 8-8.5lbs after the T piece mod.
It now runs about 12lbs, which is about the safe limit for the standard rods and pistons.
If you want to upgrade the internals (which i will do at a later stage), then 16lbs is quite safe, if properly tuned.

Overall I'm really happy how the car goes now, and it has certainly embarrassed a few HSV and GTP drivers at the lights.

But that's just an old hoon talking.

I'm looking forward to Wakefield in another couple of weeks, and we'll see what it does there.

[Craig]

I had a young lady in the car a few days ago, and when I put my foot down, she squeeled!

Oh yes?

[jules]

Are you sure it was your foot?

Jules

[Casey]

Caedrus,

The "T-piece mod" is simply a cheap, easy means to increase boost. It compensates for the boost pressure losses caused by the intercooler and pipework by taking the boost pressure measurement for the wastegate actuator (gold cylinder on the turbo) after the intercooler. Typically you will see 1 to 1.5PSI increase in boost at the engine compared to taking the boost measurement at the turbo outlet.

The downside to it all is that it's a fixed increase, ie the increase you get will depend on how well the intercooler and pipework flows. If your pipework is less restrictive the boost increase will be lower and vica versa. There is also a slight delay to the way the boost pressure is controlled because the boost needs to go all the way to the throttle plate before it can work the wastegate actuator. As it is in the stock setup the boost is controlled a few inches away from the wastegate actuator at the turbo outlet.

If you were going to the trouble of replacing the ECU you would be better off installing a proper boost controlling mechanism so that you could set the boost to whatever level you want the car tuned for which may include several different switchable boost levels, ie high/low boost.

The biggest downside of the tee-piece mod (cost will vary ) is that if you do it the normal way (ie tap into a manifold point on the plenum) you are measuring boost after the throttle butterfly. This is bad for drivability, and you really need to be connecting onto the turbo side of the throttle butterfly. With the SP this would involve drilling into the intercooler pipe work to fit a new pressure connector.

Benny's being a bit quiet on the cost of the Mania mods, but I believe the Autronic can be fitted and tuned for under $5k for club members. You could have switchable boost maps as the Autronic easily has this capacity. Indeed you could even have traction control and anti-lag!:!:. Both available on the Autronic.

One thing I didn't like about the black SP I've seen with the SPM (I think) piggy back was the cold start. I reckon the battery was in danger of being flattened from the amount of cranking required before she fired up.

The downside of the Autronic (and any other proper aftermarket ECU as far as I'm aware) is that you will need to swap the alternator for one not controlled by the ECU. The factory ECU is also left in place to control the immobiliser IIRC - or I could be speaking from my bot bot on this.

We need RussellB to add his 2c.

Edit - Caedrus, no need for the Tee piece mod after you have a decent ECU or piggy back. Both will be able to do what the tee-piece does and more through having either an EBC or controlling the boost directly via the mapping.

[bigdog]

The 'Dave' of which we speak is my brother David - 'Dave' here on the forum, and the one who introduced me to the delights of SP motoring. Dave has the oringinal Modern Motor test car, a Supreme Blue SP with 16\" Lenso wheels. And a few small mods. Mania piggyback ECU, SPM intake, hi-flow cat and two stage boost control - low at around 5-6psi for normal driving and high at somewhere around 12psi for pressing on. Dave's car has been a work in progress for a long time now, but the most noticable difference in his set up to mine (stock plus $5 mod) is the torque curve - he has had to fit a much beefier clutch to keep up with it. Like Benny's car it is smooth as and fabulous to drive. PM him for more info and the full story, it is a weapon....

[Russellb]

The downside of the Autronic (and any other proper aftermarket ECU as far as I'm aware) is that you will need to swap the alternator for one not controlled by the ECU. The factory ECU is also left in place to control the immobiliser IIRC - or I could be speaking from my bot bot on this.

We need RussellB to add his 2c.

Edit - Caedrus, no need for the Tee piece mod after you have a decent ECU or piggy back. Both will be able to do what the tee-piece does and more through having either an EBC or controlling the boost directly via the mapping.

Yes Casey the Alt neads to be replaced. Not a major problem. ( was included in the cost I told you )
The last car I did the Origanal Ecu was removed ( no anti theft ) But can be used if you like
with the Autronic you can have differant boost for differant gears IE: 7 PSI in 1st & 2ND 9 Psi in 3RD and 14 in 4th-6TH. Along with Launch control, Traction Control Anti lag ( makes cool flames out the back and can destroy Turbos ).

Turbo and Ecu where the best thing I did to My car done over 20 000Kms with out any major drama

[Dave]

And a few small mods. Mania piggyback ECU, SPM intake, hi-flow cat and two stage boost control - low at around 5-6psi for normal driving and high at somewhere around 12psi for pressing on.

Almost right... low setting is still around 8lbs - as the only way to lower it is by changing the wastegate for a softer one (still got that Exa wastegate sitting in the shed Sean... ).
It is a bit hard to quote costs, as mine was pretty much a guinea pig (following BJs beast [not an SP] and the original SP that Peter McC. now owns) and done in a few bites over 12 - 18 months. Mania quote prices for the ECU, mine also has the SPM CAI (pod filter in an airbox mounted behind passenger headlight and pulling air from the grill area). Add to this bigger injectors, MAP sensor and EBC, installation and tuning (mine got lots of the latter - sorting out issues that all help to make jobs like Benny's as good as it is now!). Suffice to say I paid heaps less than getting the Autronic solution - but then I don't have all of the features - it doesn't give the variable boost with gear selection or launch control etc.. It does however do all the little things that the factory ECU delivers (e.g. idle bump when a/c is turned on etc.). Those are the things that can be a lot of work with a full ECU replacement - all "do-able", just pending how much tuning and fiddling you are prepared to shell out for!
I guess if you want to get a current price - just pick up the phone and talk to Simone or David? It really is that easy!

Whichever way you go, isn't it great that there are some choices out there now!
Rgds,
Dave

[Russellb]

I forgot that it controls the Idle up with the A/C on and a whole heap more.
Like dave Said the more time you put it the more option you get

The older Version of the Autronic (SMC) is very poor in alot of places
The new SM4 is great . Will be upgrading my car when I sell my current Computer