After Market ECU - Which One, How Much & Why

[JBT]

Soooo, these are extension questions to davie_baby16's post \"is this what I should do?\".

1. If one was thinking about adding a turbo in the future, but wanted some interim gains by getting proper mixture settings:

a. What do you think is the best ECU and why?
b. Is piggy back or replace the way to go and why?
c. What price (rough estimate only) for your recommended kit including pre-turbo tuning?
d. Any difference if it is a 1600 or 1800?

2. Are the answers to the above questions the same if one was only thinking about gains from proper mixture settings?

[AJ]

buy an NC, you know you wanna............

[Fatty]

there are so many variables, it really comes downs to an individual's preference and whether they have any skill with a soldering iron.

if it were me, i'd go for a DIY kit. either a full standalone ecu (megasquirt $300), or a piggyback (jaycar DFA $80). but i can solder pretty good. the megasquirt gives you much more control than the DFA, but is more expensive. the DFA only gives fuel control so you'll be stuck with a fixed timing setting if you go turbo. it'll be retarded to about 6 degrees so torque in the low rev range won't be that good, BUT there might be ways around this. i'm looking into it but won't bore you with the details here as i'm still investiigating and haven't come to any conclusions yet.

like anything, it's a cost vs performance equation that will vary from person to person. the good thing about both of these kits is that you can do a lot of the tuning yourself and save money there too.

if money wasn't a problem and i didn't have the time to build it up myself, then i'd look at the other gear. but for me, DIY is the way to go.

[greenMachine]

Search is your friend ...

Trust me, you aren't the first to ask this question

[Okibi]

If you have a 1.6NA or a very early 1.8 (which uses the same plug as the 1.6) then the Wolf Plug in computer is a cheap solution.

JBT you'll need to check which plug your ECU uses.

One of our club members is getting 90kw at the wheels with a pod, a cat back and a wolf (1.8 engine).

http://www.wheelspin.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=427

GReddy Emanage also have a plug in solution.

For more high end solution consider an Autronic, but if you're going to spend that sort of cash just get a motec, they're the muts nuts.

I'm not a fan of piggy back solutions, they try and trick the ECU by changing the signal from the AFM or temp sensor. It's just too risky unless you don't mind fixing/replaceing engines if things go pear shaped.

Factor in the cost of dyno tuning the ECU to suit your cars setup.

[glen73]

For more high end solution consider an Autronic, but if you're going to spend that sort of cash just get a motec, they're the muts nuts.

ummmm ok, im assuming you have used these, could you possible tell me all the options that motec have and the advantages they hold over the rest of the market.

Factor in the cost of dyno tuning the ECU to suit your cars setup.

yep very good point because you could have a $10,000 Ecu but if you havent got someone decent to tune it than...... whats the point.

[CT]

Standalones
Megasquirt
Adaptronic
EMS
Link
Microtech
Wolf
AEM
Haltech
Autronic
Motec

Interceptors
XEDE
Unichip
Haltech
Greddy
Apexi
etc etc

There's the brands that I am aware of, each have seperate models. All are not the same. You do get what you pay for most of the time. Motecs are for rich people or race cars or both. Megasquirts are for Dick Smith Funway graduates . The question you have asked is really un-answerable. Too many variables, too much consideration required.

[JBT]

Thanks all. I'm getting the impression that a piggy back may be potentially more problematic than a stand alone and it's a case of finding/building an ECU within budget that will be suitable for a later turbo application.

OK, so assuming that there are no abnormal hiccups, what sort of money are talking about to tune a replacement ECU (no turbo added) on the dyno and then doing it again at a later date when a turbo is added

[The Pupat]

http://www.microtechefi.com/microtech-products-list.php?type_id=1

Microtech LT10s with Microtech X4 Ignition module.

Otherwise Motec M4Pro with some kind of CDI ignition system.

Motec is the best without doing the insanity of the M400 et al series, Microtech probably best value for money.

As for Brisbane tuners. Matty Spry-PITS on the Gold Coast or Phil Laird at Graphic Skills Racing. Phil Laird won't be easy to get booked into (small operation and insanely popular for a very good reason) and I don't know if he'd want to use the microtech whilst Matty Spry.

Hope this helps. I'd also be rewiring the whole thing, throwing the MAF sensor in the bin and replacing the TPS signal which I believe is a OFF-WOT signal on at least the 1.6L to a continous variable signal.

Microtech: 1195 + 150

Motec: 2,500 + 600 for the MSD ignition system though a better one will cost more (note can use the factory but it might not be the best for a turbo application).

Install: 500-600

Tuning: around 500 depending upon how much work is required.

[CT]

Don't discount the piggybacks/interceptors for simplicity and ease of reversion. They are very good. 99% will handle turbos, it's just a matter of running either external boost control or ECU boost control. Plenty of race cars I know running motecs still use manual boost controllers for simplicity. i think the important thing to note is an internal MAP sensor which most have and input/output channels. With a piggyback/interceptor, you don't have any issues with air con and alternator control which makes things a lot easier. Interceptors can also allow you to up you injector sizing which is crucial for turbo apps.

I would suggest an interceptor, installed and tuned would be a $1600-$2000 job total. Dyno tuning usually costs around the $110 per hour mark and 3-4hrs is common from my experience with a full standalone. an interceptor would be less because it only requires changing when the AFR is out.

Most of the time, once it's been tuned, you will never touch it so think long and hard about what you really need. Most people only need a way of correcting the AFRs and that at the most simplest level is what they do.

[JSE]

If playing around with the ECU I suggest go all out...its worth spending the money to get a quality product such as a Wolf...I know IMO I wouldn't bother getting a piggyback when fooling around tricking the standard ECU.

My 2 cents... * note though that with new software and computer hardware tuning plays a massive part. also leaves your wallet quite flat and empty

[ASE05]

Wooo Hooo, you're thinkin' about keeping it

My suggestion would be a standalone - but that's with never ending mods in mind

If your gonna get a turbo kit and stick to that, most piggy back ECU's will do the job nicely.

After seeing your car a few times and seeing the great condition it's in, I would try for something that is plug and play either way. Chopping into harnesses is a messy/expensive/time consuming business Well that's been my limited experience anyhow.

The EXEDE I had Chiptorque fit was $1800ish with ECU/plug in harness/fit and tune.

Work out what you're doing with the baby before you purchase the ECU!

[JBT]

Thanks for those responses everyone. I'm only considering this for road use and maaaaybe turbo road application later, apart from the usual track day fun of course. I must admit that my eyes used to glaze over once the subject got around to aftermarket ECUs and turbos .

What got me thinking about this was the gain in power (10kw ATW) and economy improvement that one of the guys here got on an NC by having a piggy back (as I understand it) fitted and tuned. The graphical results were certainly impressive. The AFRs were all over the place and very rich on the OEM setup but very steady and just a bit richer than ideal after the modification. I forget the name of the unit. This is along the lines of what Okibi mentioned one of the WA club members achieved with an N/A car.

OTOH, I could leave all this for the next owner to mess about with and just upgrade to an SE or NC .

[Okibi]

..OTOH, I could leave all this for the next owner to mess about with and just upgrade to an SE or NC .

If you get a plug in like the Wolf www.wheelspin.com.au sells then you could just unplug it, stick in the original ECU back in when you sell the car.

Then sell the Wolf on the forum.

They're perfect for those those NA6 short nose crank owners who are forced to upgrade.

[JBT]

Yes, that's good point Okibi.