Upgrading 1.6 Brakes

[john!]

I am thinking of upgrading my brakes, but I am trying to determine a few things and as such have a few quick questions.

I understand that the main difference between NA6 and NA8 is the rotor size. Does this mean the calipers are identical, with only the brackets being the difference? If so, does this conversion involve mainly replacing the brackets and rotors. Are the brackets and rotors seperate or one piece?

Anything else I need to know?


thanks

john!

[irwin83r]

the rotors calipers and brakets to my knowledge are all seperate pieces.

the 1.8 brakes to get would be the NB ones as they have a large caliper aswell as rotor size, the NA1.8s im not sure about... but if you want the NB8A brakes (NOT THE SAME AS THE NB8B BRAKES) i have a set of front 'n' rear rotors calipers and lines you can have for next to nothing but i'm not sure if thats the upgrade your thinking of. i went from NB8A brakes to NB8B(come from an SP but i hear the brakes are all the same from 2001 on wards ??)
with braided lines from mania.

theres a thread or two already out there.. have a search might find something.. ill try and find my posts latter

[StanTheMan]

Caliper & Bracket are 1 piece in the case of the NB8A Brakes
these bolted straight onto the NA6A with the bigger rotors

[Uncle Arthur]

the rotors calipers and brakets to my knowledge are all seperate pieces.

the 1.8 brakes to get would be the NB ones as they have a large caliper aswell as rotor size, the NA1.8s im not sure about... but if you want the NB8A brakes (NOT THE SAME AS THE NB8B BRAKES) i have a set of front 'n' rear rotors calipers and lines you can have for next to nothing..........

How much is next to nothing, and what sort of condition are they in?

[kula]

ooooh i may be interested in them too
and im closer:)

[irwin83r]

oh dear... too many people want them now.. gotten emails and messages from afew people.

when i said brackets were seperate i was refering to the spacer/adapters that some brake kits require to get the caliper to sit out far enough to go around the new bigger diameter rotor.
i havent done or seen a 1.6L brake setup and wasnt sure if you would need a new bracket/adapter, though its starting to sound like its the same as doing what i done with my car, just a straight swap.

info on brakes for sale (with pics go to trading forum) this isnt my thread

[Fatty]

i'm looking at a brake upgrade for my na6 too, as i'm thinking of going the turbo route.

now, i understand if i go turbo that i'll probly need a new rear diff etc from a 1.8, so the bigger brakes on the back are taken care of there.

my main question is about the front brakes. what do you guys reckon would be the best way to go - should i upgrade to 1.8 brakes (which means i would need new calipers and other associated parts?) OR would a set of better rotors and pads be good enough? i want good performance but don't want to have to upgrade to 1.8 specs if a good 1.6 style set up is good enough.

so if i stay 1.6 i'm thinking bendix ultimate pads and dba rotors. either the slotted rotors or the sports rotors. i undertstand the benefits of slotted over standard, but do the sports offer even better stopping performance, or do the just last longer in extreme driving conditions (i'm not gonna be racing, this is for road driving).

[Matty]

There are a few errors in the above posts.

1) the calipers and brackets are separate parts on all NA and NB models. The calipers are a single piston floating design, the caliper mounts to the bracket on two slider pins. All brackets have the same pin spacing.

2) there are three bracket variants: NA6, NA8/NB8A and NB8B. Each one respectively mounts the caliper further from the hub.
Each one has a corresponding rotor size.
Each one has a corresponding pad size.
Each pad has corresponding hardware (shims, springs, squealers)

3) There are at least two caliper variants: NA6 and later (I'm not sure if NB8A and NB8B are different). The early calipers have shorter \"fingers\", and the two pins are reversed. These calipers WILL fit onto the later brackets, but pad wear is slightly uneven due to the short fingers.

4) As said about the reversed pins, if you fit later rotors and brackets to an NA6, but keep the original calipers, you have to swap the left and right brackets so that the caliper is the right way up. (But if you also fit the later calipers, you keep everything on the side it's labelled for. Make sense?)

5) the diff and the hubs and brakes are all separate parts. We don't got no stinkin' live axles here!

6) NA8/NB8A brakes fit under 14\" (eg NA6) wheels. NB8B brakes won't (minimum some but not all 15s).

7) commensurate proportioning valve upgrades were done for NA8 and NB models. These give progressively more rear bias on the more recent models. They can be retrofitted easily, and are very effective. The NA6 had way too much front bias. ABS equipped models have electronic proportioning (no mechanical prop valve).

8.) Piston diameters are identical for all NA6 through NB8A. (maybe NB8B but I'm not 100% sure). The NB8B got a master cylinder upgrade (size increase) also.

9) Pads can do wonders, and would be a fine upgrade for a NA6 road car, but the later brakes do give better pedal feedback and would resist heatsoak on the track better. An engineer would probably want a brake upgrade on a turbo car though.

[Woo]

3) There are at least two caliper variants: NA6 and later (I'm not sure if NB8A and NB8B are different).

They are different Matty

Wòó

[JSE]

So you could do a brake upgrade to the NA6 with NB parts? That is replace the NA6 rotors and calipers with NB ones? Is this possible, I would imagine it would be an easy way of doin a brake upgrade, just go to a wrecker.

[StanTheMan]

Fantastic post by Matty

Could the mods keep or archive that post?

[john!]

So if the NA6 runs too much front brake bias, what sort of options are available for correcting or altering the brake balance?

Will an NA8 or NB8A proportioning valve fit?

Are there aftermarket alternatives available?

Can the existing valve be modified?

I understand that in-cabin brake bias adjustment is not exactly street legal, but has anyone discreetly added something like this to their car for the street?


john!

[StanTheMan]

I've heard people speak of lockable engine bay brake adjustmen. was told at the time it was street legal. But have not taken this any further. i have also not seen any documentation of this.

[Matty]

Read #7 fully. Yes, the NB valves can be retrofitted. Straight bolt-in. I did it and loved it. http://miata.cardomain.com/ride/123711/11

If you want more flexibility, a Wilwood or Tilton adjustable valve can be plumbed in at the same spot. I belive Tilton now do a valve with M10 inverted flare fittings, so you don't even need adaptors or to re-flare the lines for different fittings. You would however need a union for the front line, since the adjustable valves only have one input and one output.

I believe they're legal under the bonnet, but in-cabin adjustment isn't. Still, once you hava it set right you shouldn't need to adjust it again.

[Fatty]

3) There are at least two caliper variants: NA6 and later (I'm not sure if NB8A and NB8B are different). The early calipers have shorter "fingers", and the two pins are reversed. These calipers WILL fit onto the later brackets, but pad wear is slightly uneven due to the short fingers.

old thread....
so anyway, does the uneven pad wear affect performance or just longevity of the pads?

also, how much should i expect to pay for a set of brackets?
same question, how much for a set of calipers?

and where can i get them? i already have a quote from mania, just looking at options.